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Skinned Alive
Skinned Alive
Join Date 04/2006
0

Question on Quality Control

Brad Wardell should probably read this as well

February 18, 2007 2:48:01 PM from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I have a question. And please don't take this in any way disrespectful.
I was wondering if any of the BootSkins ever actually get tested before being approved?
I have scrutinized many numerous BootSkins just to see if people are getting their Skins correct. Mainly because before I did any BootSkinning I would download alot of BootSkins and sometimes I'd get a Skin that would mess up on my computer. I didn't know why at the time, so I thought the BootSkin Program had bugs and flaws in it. Anyway, wouldn't it be a good idea to have Quality Control on these BootSkins? If it's because the Moderators or whomever it is that does the approving doesn't want to actually test out the BootSkins by restarting their computers, I'm sure there's quite a few of us around that would be willing to do so. There's a guy who just had his Skin approved. No bad regards to him, you can tell it's his first Skin. The Skin itself is made up of 15 colors for the Screen and 4 colors on the Progress Bar. None of them even match. When you restart your computer, you get the old psychedelic inverted screen colors with the Progress Bar dragging artifacts along side of it. His Background is Blue, but of course the Master Palette Color isn't, so it creates a big black rectangle. This Skin already has 91 downloads has only been up a few hours.
This isn't the only Skin I've came across. I literally come across dozens. That's why I figured I'd ask this question.
skinning
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Skinned Alive
I.R. Brainiac
Join Date 05/2003
+281
Reply #1 February 18, 2007 2:57:31 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Add to that...why would someone upload a booter they hadnt even tested?
If they are buggy,they should be removed as we are talking about the boot process.

I made some changes to a logon once that almost wouldnt let me boot in safe mode to fix it...I can only imagine the impact that would have if I had uploaded it.Some users(many)are not pc literate enough to get around some boot issues.  
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Skinned Alive
Quentin94
Join Date 08/2006
+119
Reply #2 February 18, 2007 3:14:02 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
This isn't the only Skin I've came across. I literally come across dozens


i wish there aren't mine boots in your list or let me know!

Add to that...why would someone upload a booter they hadnt even tested?


I agree with that! Like all skins/themes/things it's better if it's tested!
And i think for bootskin and logons it's an obligation!

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Skinned Alive
Skinned Alive
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #3 February 18, 2007 4:15:43 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I haven't came across any of yours Quentin. But then again I never tested any of yours because I didn't feel as though I needed to.  

And yes Brain, I agree with you but many, and I do mean many, don't test their Skins before uploading. That's why I figured it would be up to the site to ensure Quality Control. Afterall, it does reflect upon the site for all good and bad things represented.
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Skinned Alive
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
+1798 sdemployee
Reply #4 February 18, 2007 4:37:24 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Bootskins are a bit of a pain.....because there are so many of them submitted.  It is a practical impossibility to reboot for every single one, so some shortcuts are taken. 

It's 'hoped' that if one boot by one uploader works ok his next will too.  Most, but still not all are dl'd and opened to check contents [eg. 4bit images, ini config, etc], but, as with Journeymen's uploads that auto-bypass moderation, the onus really must be on the uploader to check the quality/success of the skin.

When the odd one turns up that is several meg in size it's a safe bet it wasn't checked prior so is kicked...with a request to sort it out.

Ultimately, any that do find their way public....with functional issues...do as is done with any other gallery...pass on the info so the problem skin can be fixed or removed....

 

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Skinned Alive
Skinned Alive
Join Date 04/2006
0
Reply #5 February 18, 2007 5:22:22 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
There's my man.
The voice of reason.
So what you're saying my good man is that we the community can actually take the initiative and have the ability to test the Skins, and if found in an incorrect or non-working order, can pass the info to you, to be dealt with.



Sounds like a plan!


Well "Fantasy Gateway" doesn't work.
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Skinned Alive
Frogboy
Join Date 03/2001
+2408 sdemperor
Reply #6 February 18, 2007 5:35:10 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

We generally don't test boot skins. It would be far too time consuming. If you hvae a problem with one, report it to a moderator.

 

Thanks!

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Skinned Alive
Skinned Alive
Join Date 04/2006
0
Reply #7 February 18, 2007 6:20:52 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Sorry Froglegs Wardell.
Paul beat ya to the punch!
but thanks for stoppin' by!  
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Skinned Alive
Bebi Bulma
Join Date 04/2004
+209
Reply #8 February 18, 2007 6:29:21 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I test mine out on my sister's computer so I don't have to reboot mine and can easily tweak it here without having to go through constant reboots and losing place with edits.
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Skinned Alive
rabidrobot
Join Date 06/2002
+4
Reply #9 February 18, 2007 6:39:05 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Bootskin Buddy has been able to import Bootskins and check them for these errors for some time. http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/30733603/

You can use BB to check downloaded Bootskins and make sure you never have an ugly boot up. Or upload a broken Bootskin. Or allow a broken Bootskin through moderation.
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Skinned Alive
Fuzzy Logic
Join Date 05/2002
+493
Reply #10 February 18, 2007 6:45:44 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I'll check that out, sounds interesting. I usually open bootskins in PSP to check image size and palette, that usually weeds out any bad ones. Booting the pc for every skin is just not an option.
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Skinned Alive
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
+1798 sdemployee
Reply #11 February 18, 2007 7:46:01 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Thanks, Rabid....I'll take a look at that one, too....[anything to make life easier]...
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Skinned Alive
I.R. Brainiac
Join Date 05/2003
+281
Reply #12 February 19, 2007 1:22:22 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Bootskin buddy is great.I use it for every one.Course I still reboot as a final check.  
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Skinned Alive
Skinned Alive
Join Date 04/2006
0
Reply #13 February 19, 2007 4:34:44 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Me as well. I'll have to check out BootSkin Buddy that is.
By the way, Fuzzy Wuzzy, did you check your Profile Page?
I left a question there.
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Skinned Alive
Quentin94
Join Date 08/2006
+119
Reply #14 February 19, 2007 4:35:13 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I test mine out on my sister's computer


the same here but on brothers computers or my wife's computer

BB looks really great but i think that a real boot for tested our own before update them on WC it's better.
I say that for us poor beginner but you don't need a reboot
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Skinned Alive
sydneysiders
Join Date 04/2004
+1042
Reply #15 February 19, 2007 5:23:06 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Bootskin Buddy is fanbloodytastic!.....I say a little thankyou to rabidrobot everytime I make a bootskin......takes away that annoying setting of the progress bar the old way.....love it....thanks rabidrobot......  
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Skinned Alive
Skinned Alive
Join Date 04/2006
0
Reply #16 February 19, 2007 6:02:59 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I tested BootSkin Buddy people.
Sorry to say, it's flawed with several Bugs.
For basic BootSkins it tested okay, but when it came to more advanced Skins, it said that there were errors, when there really wasn't.
The Program goes by basic guidelines of Progress Bar Size, and Length, but there's more to it than that.
For instance, the first Skin I tried was my newest one, "XP Space Warp"



It gave me an error and corrected my Progress Bar's expansion running Width from 144 Pixels in length to 154. Which of course put it out of bounds of my Progress Bar Window. When I tried to correct the Program's mistake, it gave me a message saying that During actual Reboots, Progress Bar Lengths are rounded to the nearest multiple of 22. Which actually isn't true.
Another flaw, the Progress Bar size.
It keeps everything at 22X9 pixels.
Uncle Rob is proof that it'll work at higher resolutions.
All of his Progress bars are 28X10. Granted, his y coordinates 1 and 10 are always the same as his background, so when they get cut off you don't notice, but his X resolution of 28 pixels works on every boot with no problem. It shows all 28 Pixels.
I haven't done any testing yet, but I believe you could probably create even longer Bars. It probably would effect the right side of your screen where the latter X Coordinates are, possibly creating a static residual image leftover from the Bar, but if placed in the correct spot, you could probably make a long Bar with no side effects. Not sure, only a theory.
I'll have to test the Program out with my "Alien Stonehenge" and "Three Wise Men".
They stretch the limitations of the Progress Bar coordinates in both directions.
In any case, if Xander works out the bugs in the program, it'd be a fantastic work of art to use with the BootSkin community and for Moderator's assistance.  
Plus, I LOVE the Full Screen Preview mode!  
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Skinned Alive
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
+1798 sdemployee
Reply #17 February 19, 2007 7:00:05 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Handy info...I'll check into it closely...
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Skinned Alive
rabidrobot
Join Date 06/2002
+4
Reply #18 February 19, 2007 2:17:58 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Hey wow. I uploaded Bootskin Buddy to DesktopGadgets.com a long time ago (and deviantArt a bit later). It was my third real widget, and I know that inexperience shows. Particularly in the GUI design.

I think this is the most response I've had to it since then (even though I tend to shamelessly plug my stuff pretty frequently)!

While I'm not in total disagreement with Skinned Alive, I do feel that "flawed with several bugs" is a bit strong. It has been, again, a long time since I worked with bootskins and Bootskin Buddy, but I do remember a big number of reboots as trial and error experimentation. It may be possible to create a 10x28 progress bar that has the top and bottom rows of pixels cut off (it's possible to do a lot of things), but it certainly isn't the easiest way, and also certainly not foolproof.

Bootskin Buddy was designed to make solid, error-free bootskins that will always work. I consider the fact that it will not allow you to stray from strict guidelines a feature rather than a bug. Bootskins are trickier and more complex than they would appear at first glance, as the popularity of questions in this forum attests. You can bend and tweak a few rules, and get a working bootskin. Tweaking the palettes, the ProgBar size or path length can lead to some interesting effects. But not ones that will consistently work or that can really be made with consistent rules. If everyone was willing to check their Bootskins through several reboots to make sure they work it would be one thing, but that is not the case. For example, I think if you reboot a few times and closely watch your progress bar animation, you will find it ends short or goes long when the path is not a multiple of the bar length. One can make a bootskin where this isn't a big deal, but the easiest method for pixel-perfect animations is the one employed by BB.

In any case, thanks for trying it out and for the feedback. I'm afraid I have no plans to revisit Bootskin Buddy--I no longer use Bootskin (it is for XP) or even DesktopX very much, and I'm still a bit, well, bitter, over the resounding chorus of crickets with which BB was greeted back in 2005. Ugly as the GUI may be, Bootskin Buddy has features not seen in a DesktopX gadget before or since, including image palette manipulation, zip archive extraction and compression, camouflaged edit and combo-boxes, and a radical task-oriented approach to widget utility. All that and it was a year before anyone (aside from CerebroJD on IRC, thanks dude!) even acknowledged its existence with a comment.

OK, sorry, I didn't mean to hi-jack this thread. Thanks again for trying my widget. I may not be going back to update BB, but I always remember when people report their experiences with my projects, and your input will help me make better stuff in the future.

+1
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Skinned Alive
ZubaZ
Join Date 11/2001
+917
Reply #19 February 19, 2007 2:58:38 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I think this is the most response I've had to it since then (even though I tend to shamelessly plug my stuff pretty frequently)!

For what it's worth, I've never published a bootskin, but I have pushed many people to use BSB and have used it internally to test and instruct new skinners.  Sorry I never gave good feedback. 

It's a very solid app for a very unstable customization.
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Skinned Alive
Skinned Alive
Join Date 04/2006
0
Reply #20 February 19, 2007 3:07:41 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
While I'm not in total disagreement with Skinned Alive, I do feel that "flawed with several bugs" is a bit strong.


You're absolutely correct Xander, and I apologize. I truly am sorry for the context of my wording. When I wrote that, I had only tested 3 BootSkins. Mine, Uncle Rob's, and just one I grabbed from the site. My first two came up with errors, which I know aren't, so I automatically thought a 2 out of 3 miss.
I was looking at the program from more of a "final test" method, rather than "test while creating" or "help create" method.
I'm truly sorry that this didn't get noticed like it should have. When I downloaded it, I saw that it was submitted nearly a year ago and only had 160 downloads. This would had been a program that I would have loved to have had when I started creating BootSkins. I went through so much trial and error that I'm still regrowing hair. I had to reverse engineer other BootSkins, so I used Apocalypse67's. Unfortunately, I knew nothing about both color palettes having to match, so I went on with the trial and error. This program lets you know things like that. To me, this program is fantastic for beginners and those who create BootSkins using the basic guidelines of creating BootSkins, which is like 99.5% of the people. I don't really think there's hardly any extremists out there for this type of Skinning. I actually, before you had written your message, sent a comment to Magix66 on his BootSkin "Fantasy Gateway", referring him with a link to your program.
Don't worry my friend, your program has been noticed by me and shortly Rob and Hog. I'm going to start posting a Link back to your Download Page in every one of my upcoming BootSkins to those who wish to learn how to create BootSkins.
I'll put a Link to your Page and the "Stickied" page "BootSkin Tutorial" by CyberWorld.
UncleRob, Hog56, and I get a lot of downloads, and are recognized in the BootSkin Download Community. I'll pass the message onto them to see if we can raise that 160 Downloads up higher to where it deserves to be. 
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Skinned Alive
I.R. Brainiac
Join Date 05/2003
+281
Reply #21 February 19, 2007 3:45:11 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I started off with Bootskins the hard way...without BB.I tried wierd configurations,and like skinned alive said,yes they are possible.But they were too hit and miss...odd artifacts etc...testing only possible thru rebooting.

Once I used BB,I never had to guess at something again...the speed and ease of creation more than offset the lost ability to fudge certain aspects(which no one noticed anyway...except when they didnt work as expected)

Yes,the interface is gawdy but it functions flawlessly and if you screenshot it without the alignment grids you have a ss with the progress bar already in the image.

And if you have a lot of prog bars...you can quickly test them in succesion.

Rapidrobot...I noticed how unique this was and I did comment.go look.  
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Skinned Alive
Skinned Alive
Join Date 04/2006
0
Reply #22 February 19, 2007 3:55:56 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Hey Brain, you're a well known Author.
You wanna get in on the action when you put up a BootSkin?
I already posted Links to Xander's Download Page and Cyberworld's Tutorial on my latest BootSkin in the Comments area.
All we have to do is just put a Link back to the two pages with a little explanation. Heck, you can just Copy and Paste what I wrote on mine if you want.
I'm sure his downloads on his Program would pick up really quickly, especially after getting noticed.  
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Skinned Alive
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
+1798 sdemployee
Reply #23 February 19, 2007 6:29:26 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

I did mine with a little trial and error....but following the actual requirements of a boot.  Any attempt at deviation from, say, 22x9, or some contrived palette discrepancy proved the 'standard', not allowed change, not really.

If Bootskin Buddy follows the base requirements and flags all deviations from that I would be inclined to reject those that were flagged, certainly not assume some creative person had made 'wrong' work.

In the latter case the onus would definitely be on the uploader to demonstrate the boot's viability/success, stating deviation and function success in its description.

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Skinned Alive
rabidrobot
Join Date 06/2002
+4
Reply #24 February 19, 2007 8:22:25 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Aw, shucks. I'm glad you were willing to give it a closer look Skinned Alive, and appreciate you spreading the word.

Thanks too, I.R.Brainiac (best nick ever) for your comments and suggestions! I saw those just today! I am especially glad to hear that you have found the gadget useful.


Jafo the eternal optimist. But if we can't convince authors to try their bootskins once before uploading, I doubt we will convince them to explain their skin's idiosyncrasies. But, on the other hand, I'm with you that a strict definition of what constitutes a proper bootskin could be a useful culling point during moderation, although this also puts a certain extra responsibility on moderators to explain rejections.

[EDIT] Didn't mean to overlook Zubaz! Thanks, man!
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