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Mumblefratz

Join Date 07/2006

+139

Canvassing Browser Recommendations

OK. It's been years that people have been telling me that I should be using something other than IE6 and I've finally come to the point of agreeing with them. The only question now is what browser to use.

I've tried out IE7 and the latest Mozilla and found them both to be lacking but in different areas. Overall I found the configurability and functionality of Mozillia to be better than IE7 however I do have one major concern. I recently bought and installed Kaspersky Internet Security 7.0 (which I highly recommend) and have the firewall in training mode so I get frequent popups from the firewall about various network activity.

With Mozilla I was inundated with messages related to numerous UDP and TCP ports that Mozilla seems to open up for every click of the mouse. Most of these ports were directed at my ISP however a fair amount were accessing my local network and directed at my DSL modem. IE7 has significant configuration issues but at least when you click on a site you simply access that site without a whole lot of backdoor communication channels needed to be setup.

My issue with IE7 is that the toolbar and menu bars are not very configurable, you can't delete the search box and it doesn't seem to offer to remember passwords to many sites (such as this one). The one feature of IE7 that I really liked was the zoom function. Not just the ability to scale the text size but the ability to zoom in or out on everything including graphical items.

So given the above complaints can anyone recommend something that I might like better?

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

With Mozilla I was inundated with messages related to numerous UDP and TCP ports that Mozilla seems to open up for every click of the mouse.

Huh? That doesn't make much sense unless you've got some odd addons installed (which I think I can safely assume is not the case). Firefox http traffic uses only TCP, same as IE. Each connection it opens is on a new outgoing port, usually in the 2000-3000 range (again, same as IE).

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Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+153

Opera's been my primary browser for several years now, and still has the best zoom functionality, IMO. (I really like having num pad support, INS to zoom in, - to zoom out.)

The only browsing problems I have with it are at my credit union's home banking site, which won't accept login credentials these days, and at some sites that rely on too many Microsoft bells and whistles (mostly at microsoft.com).

I'm pretty sure you'll balk at the idea, but these days it seems "normal" to me to have three browsers installed. I use Opera as default, Firefox when Opera is balky, and IE7 when I must (for work, e.g. SharePoint sites). Hard disk space is cheap, these days, so it doesn't bother me like it once would have.

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Mumblefratz

Join Date 07/2006

+139

No. No addons. Just a vanilla install of Firefox 2.0.0.13 from http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/ last night.

I'm not totally understanding the difference between TCP and UDP. Also just because ports are opened doesn't mean that they are used, but there are definitely ports opened directly to my DSL modem at 192.168.0.1 and many ports opened to all different Verizon url's (my ISP), most notably something having to do with netbios or some such.

I make no claim to understanding what all this stuff is but with Mozilla installed my training mode firewall lights up like a spotlight and with IE7 it doesn't say a peep. I can only conclude that Mozilla is opening up way more channels than IE7, however once I approve their opening I have no idea of what kind of traffic there is, if any.

Even though I don't really understand what's going on I still find these non-obvious communication channels troubling.

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Mumblefratz

Join Date 07/2006

+139

I'm pretty sure you'll balk at the idea, but these days it seems "normal" to me to have three browsers installed.

Yeah, you're right about that. It's not the disk space, it's just the overall simplicity and cleanliness of my system.

I am basically resigned to having two since you can't really "get rid" of IE in any case, although the question would be whether to leave IE at 6 or upgrade to 7 along with whatever primary browser I settled on.

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

Well, the only thing I can guess is if it's some sort of first-run settings detection (I created my profile long, long ago, before even 1.0, so I can't say what it may do in 2 or 3 with a new profile).

It might also be instructive to run netstat with a short interval and watch it while browsing with all outgoing traffic allowed. That way you can see exactly where it's connecting to and when (all I get are the expected TCP connections). Though personally, I don't worry about firewalling outgoing traffic anyway, only incoming. The only way I'd get something bad trying to get out is if I downloaded it myself, after all.

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I have a crazy number of browsers installed (IE8, Firefox, Opera, Safari, and many others), although I nearly always use Firefox, using the IE tab addon for stupid websites. I think Firefox's main strength lies in the addons, although the vanilla is still very advanced. I would also recommend Opera, as to me it seems a good browser, my main complaint being that I think it is ugly, although that may not be an issue for you. In short, I'd recommend Firefox and Opera.

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I make no claim to understanding what all this stuff is but with Mozilla installed my training mode firewall lights up like a spotlight and with IE7 it doesn't say a peep

I'm not too familiar with your firewall, but it may be that it has already "learned/trained" IE in the sense that the firewall came preconfigured to understand or has figured out what the normal traffic is for IE, hence the fewer messages. The firewall may still be "learning" firefox, hence more messages while it "learns" what traffic is normal for the new broswer.

I've used Opera for um, a decade? ( I think its been a decade, wow) I personally love it. It doesn't jive with some of the most specialized sites - but its getting mmuch much better. It has a lot of strong features. Its not the most customizable, but it certianly beats IE7.

I've never had problems with it and my firewall (zonealarm).

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I think you know what I recommend Mumble

. Maxthon. It uses the same engine as EI7 so has little compatiblity issues with any sites. The whole reason I ended up with it was due to EI7s interface being totally inaccessable to configure. Maxthon fixes that and can be customized out the yingyang.

Opera would be my second choice with the only problem I had being that it seemed to use more CPU resources and would bog down GC2 when used at the same time, not a problem I've had with other browsers. Still the features of Opera were great, it had many built in that are plugins for other browsers.

Not sure what to say about Firefox. Seems an ok browser, but it wasn't the end all and be all the fanboys would have you believe it is. My issues with it are more with the company(s) behind it.

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I'm pretty sure you'll balk at the idea, but these days it seems "normal" to me to have three browsers installed.Yeah, you're right about that. It's not the disk space, it's just the overall simplicity and cleanliness of my system.I am basically resigned to having two since you can't really "get rid" of IE in any case, although the question would be whether to leave IE at 6 or upgrade to 7 along with whatever primary browser I settled on.

If IE is not going to be your main browser then i see no reason to upgrade to 7 leave IE 8 alone it is no good !!
firefox is ok i use it more then IE i had to reformat and i did not upgrade to IE 7
but did put firefox back on,... IE 7 was ok I just did not like the way it was set up.
firefox buttons are setup better!!

Nasty

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I like and use Firefox, primarily. The add-ons are very nice and I like the feel and interface options. Opera's very good too, and if I needed a second browser for something that's what I'd use.

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Mistralok1

Join Date 05/2006

+22

I would definitely recommend Firefox. I have been using it almost exclusively for some time now. There are only two sites that I use IE for, that being the M$ site, and one old wholesaler's site that still requires it. I have had no problems whatsoever with it.

Firefox is faster than IE, right out of the 'box'. There are a number of settings in it that can be tweaked for even faster speeds. I did this and improved the load times ~25%. I did it in the registry, but there is a little add-on called "Tweak Network" out now that makes the process easier. Another add-on that I use is called "Ad Blocker Plus". I does what the title implies; it blocks adds from loading. These can take longer to load than the page itself, so using this speeds up load times even further. There are hundreds of these apps that do pretty much anything you can imagine.

I like the UI better than IE's, though that is simple preference. There are any number of 'themes' (skins) that you can choose from. They range from very simple to garish and over the top. I prefer clean and simple, myself.

As far as the zoom function goes, FF now only zooms text, but FF3 is in the final Beta stages, and will allow zooming of pics as well. It also uses less memory, so it should have even better performance, while using less resources. (Sound familiar)?

In short, FF is faster, has better support, and will do anything that any other browser will do, so why not?

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Hold it, everyone seem to be quite pleased with FireFox (and that's okay)... but, when someone claims Mozilla is a similar Browser this is where i must chime in.

Mozilla is more about Mid-range (going from high-end Netscape to almost simpler Firefox) options than anything i've seen available. Know though that it no longer is supported by the Foundation since it has been replaced by SeaMonkey. With Moz you get (or had gotten); the Browser_Mailserver_Html-Editor all-in-one combo. As with Firefox, you need to provide an extra Mailing prog and the editor.

I've been using Mozilla for years and have no complain about it whatsoever; it got knocked off a few times when Flashplayer & other helpers dll started to creep in with newer versions but as long as it was maintained properly with updates, it simply worked well enough. Still does, so far. Firewall (any) friendly.

Some sites may still be stuck with online MS streaming videos (giggly Media Player 10, anyone?) which aren't compatible with ALL browsers... but that's their problem. Supported systems (offline too, btw) are simply a neck wreck when one must select a 'good' browser; call it the Microsoft hegemony desease caught by ISPs and their business partnerships. Silly, if you ask me.

I've got IE6 as an emergency slotting gizmo - and used it only about twice during the last six months to test a tricky D/L callup. Never cared much about installing IE7 for more reasons than anyone could find; namely - registry settings, annoyingly stupid kinky bars stuff & continual streaking over somehow limited bandwidth comin' right out of built-in MS processes.
I just log on and hate having to aDAware out a whole bunch of creepy cookies purposely dumped to an IE cache **without** by better knowledge or even with any kind of control over the issues. As with Mozilla, i do manage everything necessary my way since the options give me that much power.

Really should get on with the latest SeaMonkey installation though, as it may contain slick new features and upgraded options to Mozilla.

Personal opinions and taste does matter also, but for quick and dirty navigation & from experience, i'd have to recommend Mozilla or its newest offspring SeaMonkey. Besides, it IS free.

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+1 for Opera.

It has the most configurable user interface of any current generation browser. Frankly, if you're used to IE6 then you'll find any other browser to be a bit of a learning experience.

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I have a question to ask myself about the tabs and middle mouse button.

When Firefox first come out, I was put off by how the middle mouse button would open up a new tab when clicking on a link instead of allowing me to scroll. Its a real pain with some web sites where there are a lot of links, and I've been to some where a big image was a link itself requiring me to use the scroll bars to the side of the window to move around. As such I went back to IE 6. Now that IE 7 is out, it too has the same problems with the middle mouse button.

Does anyone know how to fix this? I have looked at the settings to change this, but I haven't been able to find anything. Same case for Firefox. Any advice would be appreciated.

For the record, I'm very happy with right clicking something, and then selecting "Open Link in New Tab". I'm posting from one such tab right now.

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

When Firefox first come out, I was put off by how the middle mouse button would open up a new tab when clicking on a link instead of allowing me to scroll.

I don't recall it doing it by default in older versions--had to get the Tabbrowser Preferences addon to do it. Though now that it seems that middle-click to open in tab is the norm, the addon will let you disable it if you like.

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I found the addon, but it seems to be working kind of wierd (opening multiple tabs at once, or multiple windows instead). It might be due the other addons I downloaded while looking (some of which were working wierd). I'll do some testing tomorrow, disabling and possibly uninstalling some of them in the process.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

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Mumblefratz

Join Date 07/2006

+139

Boy a lot of suggestions here. Thanks.

It might also be instructive to run netstat with a short interval and watch it while browsing with all outgoing traffic allowed. That way you can see exactly where it's connecting to and when (all I get are the expected TCP connections).

Ah... Very interesting. Thanks. I love useful command line executables. Never knew this one existed. However funny thing is netstat itself caused a very similar sequence of firewall popups as my initial usage of FF. I'm getting the following:

Direction: Outbound
Protocol: UDP
Remote IP address: dslmodem.domain (192.168.1.1)
Application file: C:\WINDOWS\system32\netstat.exe

and:

Direction: Outbound
Protocol: UDP
Remote IP address: nsbost01.verizon.net (71.243.0.12)
Application file: C:\WINDOWS\system32\netstat.exe

But while the firewall is reporting the above netstat is as you mentioned only reporting expected TCP traffic. Hmm...

I don't worry about firewalling outgoing traffic anyway, only incoming. The only way I'd get something bad trying to get out is if I downloaded it myself, after all.

Actually neither do I but while most of the traffic was outbound there were Inbound UDP packets as well.

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Mumblefratz

Join Date 07/2006

+139

Not sure why I couldn't edit my above post as no one had yet posted after it but whatever.

Actually neither do I but while most of the traffic was outbound there were Inbound UDP packets as well.

One more point about outbound versus inbound. While I couldn't care less about the potential malware content of outgoing packets because that would mean that I'm already infected which means it's already too late, I am a bit suspicious of *any* outbound traffic that I didn't directly instigate. Actually I'm wary of *any* action that my PC takes without my explicit intention.

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

Ah.

Bit of research works wonders, Mumble.

DNS uses UDP, which explains traffic to both your router and your ISP's DNS server. Since it happens automatically for *any* net traffic based on a domain name, it's not going to be shown in most cases. I'm actually pretty surprised that your firewall shows it (in itself kinda odd since it's a low-level, standard thing), for everything *but* IE.

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Mumblefratz

Join Date 07/2006

+139

in itself kinda odd since it's a low-level, standard thing

But isn't it the low level, standard things that are the scariest holes in your protection?

Actually this perhaps makes some sense in that Kaspersky recommends turning off DNS caching (not totally sure why they recommend this but I've followed their recomendation in any case) and so (I'm totally guessing here) all such references will need to be resolved by my ISP, hence all the ISP traffic?

I probably should check this again because perhaps this has changed with going back and forth installing and then uninstalling browsers.

As an aside, I'm very happy with Kaspersky Internet Sercurity 7.0. It loads only two services, one for the system and one for the logged on user and in normal circumstances the memory utilization is very small, usually 2MB for one and 6MB for the other. These two services take care of everything.

Once you actually do something like open up your email and receive messages or download a file then one of the processes expands to somewhere between 25MB to 50MB but I see no slowdown in the download although I am only on DSL and my normal download speed is only 768kbps (what do you expect for $14.95 a month).

Finally what iced the decision for me was the fact that for support I can call a native english speaker right around the corner from me in Woburn, MA that actually seems to know what they're talking about. Call support is only during normal business hours but it is free and they have the normal email/chat/faq lookup support that's usually useless for outside of business hours.

Besides Kaspersky, I downloaded and tried BitDefender, ZoneAlarm, Norton, CA and McAffe and based on my perhaps unique selection criteria, Kaspersky was definitely the best.

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I don't use it anymore, but for completeness sake I'll mention the Avant Browser.

I used it back in the day when I wanted IE compatibility, but firefox features. Its just a wraparound for IE, so you keep all your IE bookmarks, settings, compatibility, etc..., just get more features.

http://www.avantbrowser.com

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