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Snowman
Snowman
Join Date 03/2001
+343

Comment-bashing

Bad karma's around...

August 18, 2008 12:27:55 PM from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
We have unfortunately seen an increase in negativity in skin-comments lately.

This must stop!!

If you have any issues with a skin you've downloaded, please make the artist aware of it either as comment or an email/PM in a polite way.
If you have any issues with a/any artist, please keep it to yourself or at least in private.
When entering this site, please hang any negative karma outside the door. It's not welcome here!
Remember, negativity breeds negativity. Give a negativ comment, then expect a negative response.

If you have any issues with a/any artist, and decides that you wanna bash him/her by badmouthing him/her in comments on a skin the artist has uploaded - forget it!
Doing so will get your posting priveleges removed, for a period of time. Keep it up and you will eventually be banned/exiled from the site - regardless of your status with Stardock/WC (Customer/subscriber).
Having baught a Stardock product or payed for extended access to WinCustomize - or even having been so fortunate to have been promoted to highest userlevel (Master) - doesn't grand you the right to be content/style/quality police!!
The only ones who police what's going public or not are the admins/moderators - no one else!

So in short, keep your comments polite, tactful and constructive if critisism, even if you dislike the skin/artist.
If you absolutely HAVE to bash a skin/artist please do it in private.
(Yeah I know, that doesn't make you look cool to your friends/followers/pets/relatives, but it keeps the site clean and happy.)

If you cannot/will not live by this then, please live by the old saying "If you have nothing good to say - say nothing".

Please keep WinCustomize a happy site


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Snowman
Hankers
Join Date 04/2004
+539 moderator
Reply #1 August 18, 2008 12:35:19 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Amen! 
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Snowman
Pixeleo
Join Date 04/2008
+53
Reply #2 August 18, 2008 12:37:08 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Ditto...
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Snowman
vStyler
Join Date 11/2004
+919
Reply #3 August 18, 2008 12:59:10 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
If you have nothing good to say - say nothing


Although I agree with most of this post.. this statement is..to me.. is absurd.

Heres the reality folks, people don't get better by telling them GREAT SKIN!!..GOOD WORK!!

They get better via realistic criticism, sometimes it hurts, in the long run, it does help.

Having the abilty to only say 'nice, good' things is the best way to foster mediochrity.

To be told how to comment, what you can and cannot say.. is almost socialist and in essence censorship.

This stems from being told year after year how CRAP my work was...Yeah, it hurt, hurt bad, but in the end , They were right, it was crap and I'm better for it.

I'm not saying going around calling peoples work is crap is ok, it's not but to say if you dont have something nice to say.. don't comment at all.. is ridiculous.

Also I seem to remember being stalked and hounded and harrassed and flamed by a certain someone for months and months for NO reason.. until FINALLY something was done about it after several complaints.

Where were the site police then?
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Snowman
WeatherBound
Join Date 10/2005
+71
Reply #4 August 18, 2008 1:11:01 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Although I agree with most of this post.. this statement is..to me.. is absurd.

Heres the reality folks, people don't get better by telling them GREAT SKIN!!..GOOD WORK!!

They get better via realistic criticism, sometimes it hurts, in the long run, it does help.

Having the abilty to only say 'nice, good' things is the best way to foster mediochrity.

To be told how to comment, what you can and cannot say.. is almost socialist and in essence censorship.


I agree on this. But




As long as its done in a nice and helpful way.Winking 4
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Snowman
ZubaZ
Join Date 11/2001
+917
Reply #5 August 18, 2008 1:12:36 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Calling people's work or people crap is unacceptable.

Pointing out skin or character flaws, issues, and concerns in a polite, well-thought out manner is.  Posting your opinion in the same manner is also acceptable

I believe that Snowy was focusing not on the negative content but on the negative delivery.  There is a difference. 
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Snowman
BONEHEADdb
Join Date 10/2004
+108
Reply #6 August 18, 2008 1:13:18 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Although I agree with most of this post.. this statement is..to me.. is absurd.

Heres the reality folks, people don't get better by telling them GREAT SKIN!!..GOOD WORK!!

They get better via realistic criticism, sometimes it hurts, in the long run, it does help.

Having the abilty to only say 'nice, good' things is the best way to foster mediochrity.

To be told how to comment, what you can and cannot say.. is almost socialist.


Amen!

I have uploaded work that wasn't up to par(judging from the downloads)but you always get the same flock of comments like great work, good job, nice. For crying out load folks, tell us what is wrong with darn thing so it can be fixed. Of course like Snowman said you don't have get sh*tty about it.
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Snowman
vStyler
Join Date 11/2004
+919
Reply #7 August 18, 2008 1:14:37 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I'm all for constructive criticism.. but I gotta say its hard to cirtique someone realistically in a nice way.. no matter how you say it.. people think your an ass. Ive seen it over and over. You hear..Well I didnt make it for YOU!. either way any kind of negative criticism is usually taken badly.. trying to sugar coat it doesnt really help.
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Snowman
Island Dog
Join Date 06/2003
+1047 sdemployee
Reply #8 August 18, 2008 1:17:26 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I think the point here is there is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, and I think people should welcome that.  It only helps others get better. 

The negativity I would assume that Snowman is talking about is just the comments like "this sucks" and other recent flame wars. 
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Snowman
Lantec
Join Date 07/2003
+346
Reply #9 August 18, 2008 1:20:45 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
If you have nothing good to say - say nothing


Although I agree with most of this post.. this statement is..to me.. is absurd.


I believe you've taken that portion out of context

So in short, keep your comments polite, tactful and constructive if critisism, even if you dislike the skin/artist.
If you absolutely HAVE to bash a skin/artist please do it in private.

If you cannot/will not live by this then, please live by the old saying

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Snowman
Hankers
Join Date 04/2004
+539 moderator
Reply #10 August 18, 2008 1:21:13 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
The message was and is 'if you can't say something in a polite way then don't say anything'
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Snowman
ZubaZ
Join Date 11/2001
+917
Reply #11 August 18, 2008 1:22:00 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Bad reception of criticism can be just as bad as the bad giving.

But if you post a clear comment on why you think a skin has failed in some way . . you have done your part.  Move along.  If the artist is receptive and asks for more feedback . . continue.  If not . . no need to ever try to help again.

Arguing with an idiot may confuse who is who. 
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Snowman
vStyler
Join Date 11/2004
+919
Reply #12 August 18, 2008 1:22:19 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Then it should have been rephrased.
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Snowman
DrJBHL
Join Date 04/2002
+3962 moderator
Reply #13 August 18, 2008 1:23:13 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Although I agree with most of this post.. this statement is..to me.. is absurd.

Heres the reality folks, people don't get better by telling them GREAT SKIN!!..GOOD WORK!!

They get better via realistic criticism, sometimes it hurts, in the long run, it does help.


That's fine. Snowman simply said "Do it politely and in private communication" and that's what's called CIVILITY.

Right on snowman....I've said the same thing, and try to practice it.
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Snowman
vStyler
Join Date 11/2004
+919
Reply #14 August 18, 2008 1:33:21 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Lets not mix words guys, this was about one thing.. about IR and Myself (title aside) calling another skinner out for what he does..I myself would not have gotten involved had the term sons of bitches not been thrown out there by that skinner. So chastize us if you must, tell us.. were not 'nice' and let one of the worst offenders on this site continue to get away with his blatent actions while good folks making their own work and really trying get knocked down to the bottom of the page.

What if everyone every couple of days everyone updated their skins to be at the top of page one..? What if everyone took images from other themes, threw them together badly and called it their 'work' This may not mean anything to a lot of people but to th epeople that DO their own work, are honest in their appraoch, it IS something.. in fact it's quite a big deal.

I don't think you see us going into everyones submissions and trashing them do you, no..and you won't because were better than that and have more important things in our lives like helping out in the forums, mentoring, putting together quality skins....but at some point, no matter how much it is frowned upon you feel obligated to call it like it is.

If we are SO wrong about this, if we are elitist for calling a spade a spade then I guess we are just that.

This whole thing is personally wearing on me and if I'm way off on this please let me know.

Last I'll say on that subject..excuse me if I go too far in my beliefs.
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Snowman
Phoon
Join Date 10/2001
+382
Reply #15 August 18, 2008 2:44:18 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I don't see anything wrong with your point of view Styler and IR. It's right on target.

Looks like the original concepts and values of skinning that were once upheld have gone out the window in favor of kissing the ass of the almighty dollar. It's that way every where you turn in todays world though isn't it. Good luck to you guys that try to make a living at this and actually CARE still.
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Snowman
zakai1369
Join Date 04/2007
+139
Reply #16 August 18, 2008 5:09:17 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
It seems that I always miss the posts that lead up to these threads.

But anyways.

I'm all for trying to keep things nice around here. Hell, I myself act much nicer toward people here than I have on other sites in the past, just because of the community I saw in place when I first found WC. That's not to say I would run around the internet acting like an asshole. But other places if I had seen people commenting with such obvious stupidity or cries for attention as I have seen in some posts on here, I would have replied with much obvious sarcasm or just pointed out their stupidity/patheticness to them blatantly.

I know that's not really what the post was about but again

anyways...


If people can't take negative comments, when they are given in a constructive and or civil way, without having a fit and flying off the handle about them, then maybe they shouldn't be posting in the first place.

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Snowman
kenwas
Join Date 04/2003
+124
Reply #17 August 18, 2008 5:19:38 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
It seems that I always miss the posts that lead up to these threads.


It wasn't a post but a string of comments on a WB upload, which seems to have been deleted from the main gallery at this point.
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Snowman
DrJBHL
Join Date 04/2002
+3962 moderator
Reply #18 August 18, 2008 5:26:42 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Arguing with an idiot may confuse who is who.


But who's on first, what's on second, I don't know's on third......

Hi Zu! Love your comments. There really is a HUGE diff between negative comments and negative delivery. In the latter case, it never arrives.
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Snowman
zakai1369
Join Date 04/2007
+139
Reply #19 August 18, 2008 5:31:37 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
It wasn't a post but a string of comments on a WB upload, which seems to have been deleted from the main gallery at this point.


I figured that from the previous replies. I was using the term "posts" loosely to cover comments/posts/threads. Thanks for trying to clarify though. (and knowing that text is the worst conveyor of inflection: no sarcasm or hostility is meant by this reply )
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Snowman
Bushman
Join Date 08/2001
+17
Reply #20 August 18, 2008 5:36:02 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Could not have said it any better   
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Snowman
DrJBHL
Join Date 04/2002
+3962 moderator
Reply #21 August 18, 2008 5:43:24 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
What if everyone every couple of days everyone updated their skins to be at the top of page one..? What if everyone took images from other themes, threw them together badly and called it their 'work' This may not mean anything to a lot of people but to th epeople that DO their own work, are honest in their appraoch, it IS something.. in fact it's quite a big deal.


I vote yes to that as well. If you are talking about this type of activity, the appropriate action should take place at the Moderator/Submission Review level. If there's a problem there, then bring it POLITELY (honey vs. vinegar...ice vs. flame....whisper vs. shout) to the upper management and if it continues, bring it to a Forum (politely). You should have the folks that pull that stuff tossed out of WC. Just do it the right way.

vStyler, I love and use your artistic efforts with pride on my computer. Let me give you all the credit you richly deserve....please (read EVERYONE here) try to present your views in a way that mirrors your artistic gift. When you curse or flame (even though fully justified) I am ten times more disappointed and distanced from your view JUST BECAUSE I respect your skills so much.

Does this make sense? I am saying this as your fan!
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Snowman
vStyler
Join Date 11/2004
+919
Reply #22 August 18, 2008 5:49:17 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Dr J, I typically do, when called a son of a bitch, I take a different tact... blame it on being a scotsman if that makes it easier... and yes I understand your post and thanks....noted.
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Snowman
ShelbyGT_The_Car
Join Date 01/2004
+103
Reply #23 August 18, 2008 5:56:24 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Lets not mix words guys, this was about one thing.. about IR and Myself (title aside) calling another skinner out for what he does..I myself would not have gotten involved had the term sons of bitches not been thrown out there by that skinner. So chastize us if you must, tell us.. were not 'nice' and let one of the worst offenders on this site continue to get away with his blatent actions while good folks making their own work and really trying get knocked down to the bottom of the page.


John hey we know where you are coming from. From my past here and at DA - I've seen a lot of what whats with this. Believe me I see your point. But it takes two to tango and it is never a good thing. Now don't get me wrong - I'm listening and watching here. I've done it for years and learned a lot. Ya I make them mistakes too. But we are all friends here I hope. We all look out for each other and try our best to do for others of this community. No one wants to make you seem as if you are the cause of things. We all just want one thing... what others see when they come here is very important. I agree with your point about this skinner. But until there is something done properly. We can only watch and do what is right.
1. If it is rip - we report it to the proper people to take care of it. We do not have that power to do this the right way except by reporting it.
2. If I do not like something I see here for whatever reason. I usually just sit back and wait to see what happens before I get involved. Saying I rarely comment on things I do not like. If I do I'll make the point as to what it is I do not like and why. Refraining from my personal opinions... keeping it clean and as nice as possible.
3. If I see something that is wrong with a skin or art work. I usually contact the artist directly. The direct approach is the best. Why? So it gives the option to fix or even understand better what it is which he/she needs to change or workout. Art work is very personal and is best when the person doing it has total control. Saying I'd like to fix something and can you look at this my way. Which could be wrong and is best that what I have in mind be only known by the artist and me. As such making it personal and that being polite too.

We are all here to work together and should take a calm look at things for the better. Not letting some so called event take things to the wrong place. It is never worth it... you always remember... it is something to live with and live by.
Plus these rules are needed. I totally agree with what has been setup here for the flaming issue at hand. Flaming never gets anyone anything. Just makes things look bad here at this community.
So say what you will about what I've tried my best to extend here as my ideas and opinions for this thread. But we can work together for a better outcome in this matter and whatever may come here in the future.




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Snowman
ZubaZ
Join Date 11/2001
+917
Reply #24 August 18, 2008 5:59:01 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Arguing with an idiot may confuse who is who.
Puttong on my Jafo hat . . should that be "who is whom"?
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Snowman
vStyler
Join Date 11/2004
+919
Reply #25 August 18, 2008 6:01:27 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Puttong on my Jafo hat


Take it off, it doesn't fit and you look silly in it.  

Not letting some so called event take things to the wrong place. It is never worth it.


I'm not a pacifist, I believe in standing up for 1. Myself, 2. people I care about and 3. What I believe to be be right and just.

Seems as if I'm constantly having to tell myself this is the right thing to do.. I never used to doubt it.
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