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Frogboy
Frogboy
Join Date 03/2001
+2411 sdemperor

Reporting Rips: READ THIS!!!

Policy clarification

June 12, 2006 12:23:27 PM from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

There has been some question with regards to users posting about potential rips. 

WinCustomize.com supports users reporting violations of other people's copyrights.  The forum "Permissions" (general->permissions) exists to that purpose (we are working on a new forum layout that will make this easier).

There was confusion in this thread:

https://www.wincustomize.com/forums.aspx?ForumID=144&AID=119968

Here's the deal:

WinCustomize allows FAN art.  This isn't open to debate.  If someone wants to upload a Superman wallpaper that they made, that's fine. If they want to submit an X-men wallpaper that is fine.  If there is an issue with it, Marvel, Warner, whoever will let us know.  However, in "real life" there are thousands of fan sites that post the same thing.  WinCustomize does not exist in a vacuum.

We allow fan art because no one will be "confused" or "misled" by what the fan art is about.  There is no confusion over the ultimate owner of the trademarks or trade dresses involved.

Ripping, however, is something different.  No individual skinner or icon artist has the fame or distribution in which a "casual user" would recognize their work as opposed to being the work of someone else who uploads it or uses it in their product.

WinCustomize takes copyright and trademark rights very seriously. So if someone sees a product, service, website, skin, or theme that is making use of another individual's work that they don't think they have permisison, you should feel free to post it here to draw attention to it.

In the past we have seen our own content made use without our permission.  We have seen Paul Boyer's icons used without permission.  We have seen our own skins used without permission.  So it is clearly a problem and as a community we should work together.

I realize there are some people who have much more stringent definitions of what copyright protection means and I realize there are those who have much looser views on what copyright means. This is not the place to debate that.  We have struck a middle ground (so no one will be quite happy).

Hopefully this clears up confusion.

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Frogboy
seldomseen
Join Date 09/2002
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Reply #1 June 12, 2006 1:09:18 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Great post! This thread should resolve quite a bit of the current issue involving sharing of "found objects", most importantly as reflects on WinCustomize and its members. Thanks, Brad. Timely, as always.
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Frogboy
Island Dog
Join Date 06/2003
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Reply #2 June 12, 2006 1:58:46 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Thanks for clearing this up.

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Frogboy
ZubaZ
Join Date 11/2001
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Reply #3 June 12, 2006 1:59:05 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
WC policy for suspected rips and copyright infringement: Post concern in General --> Permissions folder

Will the Mods or the community evaluate the suspect upload? Will the thread be removed or locked after the issue is addressed? Do NOT email the mods or use IRC?

I think the policy is clear Brad but the implementation might be hard.

Posted via WinCustomize Browser/Stardock Central
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Frogboy
Frogboy
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Reply #4 June 12, 2006 2:40:43 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Forum posts are fine.  But no, we don't want people jumping on IRC or emailing us all the time about it.f

The problem Jafo and others have run into is the "boy who cried wolf" syndrome.  That is, what people don't see are the emails Jafo and other mods get by people who want WinCustomize to play cop on some personal issue or whatever (most common example is when multiple people work on something together and then they have a falling out later).

Then there's the issue of evolving standards on the net.  Two years ago, we would not have allowed someone to take stock photos and turn them into logons or boot screens.  Today, we would but that's not always communicated by Stardock and so mods enforce the policies they are aware of.

The single biggest problem of WinCustomize is that it was founded on a naive premise -- that Stardock would basically hand it over to the community to run.  That's not realistic because there is no "community" in the sense of there being a single minded purpose. 

Stardock is in the process of trying to hire people who would work here in Plymouth Michigan who would actually be responsible for Stardock's websites and interact with the volunteers and be in a position to compensate volunteers (like Jafo) for the time they put in.  When I'm personally making the news items on WC all the time you know there's a problem.

I love WinCustomize and the community. But my full time job has to be to run Stardock and the 40+ employees and dozens of projects going on as well as my programming responsibilities and sometime in there be a good dad and husband. 

So what I'm saying is that the reason WC has a lot of these miscommunications is because of me -- I don't have enough time to communicate effectively what our positions are on some of the more nebulous issues of a skin site and so the moderators have to work blind.  The solution is to have a full-time Stardock person here in the office who is in charge of our websites to work with the admins and moderators on a more regular basis.

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Frogboy
NightTrainthedark
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Reply #5 June 12, 2006 2:51:04 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Refreshing stuff to hear.
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Frogboy
ZubaZ
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Reply #6 June 12, 2006 2:53:29 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Thanks Brad. I appreciate the response.

Posted via WinCustomize Browser/Stardock Central
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Frogboy
seldomseen
Join Date 09/2002
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Reply #7 June 12, 2006 4:05:56 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I constantly have to raise my level of appreciation for all that goes on backstage in order to make this work.
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Frogboy
kenwas
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #8 June 12, 2006 4:33:50 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Your openness and frankness is appreciated Brad. Understanding the issue puts one well on the road to resolution.
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Frogboy
RomanDA
Join Date 12/2003
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Reply #9 June 12, 2006 5:07:48 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I have a question on the "fan art" concept. I have made some WMP Skins using NFL Logo's, and had them removed (this was a few years ago), and im curiouos if the idea of "Fan art" applies to these as well? There were really getting a lot of downloads, etc. Im just curious if these would be allowed back?

Im not bitching, i am just wondering...
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Frogboy
ZubaZ
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Reply #10 June 12, 2006 5:10:14 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
im curiouos if the idea of "Fan art" applies to these as well?


If there is an issue with it, Marvel, Warner, whoever will let us know.


I know that major league sports in the US are VERY touchy about their logos. My guess is one of them said something to Stardock and spoiled it for everyone.

But as you know RomanDA, I'm 1/2 full of crap . . . so I might be wrong.
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Frogboy
Frogboy
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Reply #11 June 12, 2006 5:19:54 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
RomanDA, the rule of thumb I would use is if you can find fan sites readily on the Internet that do similar things, then we would probably conclude that the NFL doesn't have an issue and that if falls under fair use for the creation of fan art.
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Frogboy
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Reply #12 June 12, 2006 5:31:29 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
then we would probably conclude that the NFL doesn't have an issue and that if falls under fair use for the creation of fan art


Most fan sites don't get the traffic and attention of Stardock and Wincustomize though. Expect a letter.

Posted via WinCustomize Browser/Stardock Central
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Frogboy
RomanDA
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Reply #13 June 12, 2006 5:40:27 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
no prolems.. wont worry about them anymore.....
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Frogboy
TYCUS
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #14 June 12, 2006 6:27:25 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
There was confusion in this thread:


lol.., brad...

well yes, the main point of my thread was to show how software developers use with or without permission others work to make money....

and geez..., that post get out of control....
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Frogboy
Randahl
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Reply #15 June 13, 2006 5:23:55 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Another solution, and this being a simple one, is to check the copyright and trademark information that most "corporate" sites have. I know this information can sometimes be unclear due to either a misunderstanding of "legalese" or even just a poorly writen statement so be sure to check with others if you're confused. I've wanted to use logos and images from sites and after checking have found actual "allowed usage" rules or even a "fansite kit" with everything packaged neatly. A little search on the end-users part never goes amiss!
Thanks for clearing this up for us Brad!
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Frogboy
Fairyy~
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #16 June 13, 2006 7:16:15 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums


well yes, the main point of my thread was to show how software developers use with or without permission others work to make money....

and geez..., that post get out of control.


That wasnt your fault Tycus. You reported what I think was an important issue. The rest just kinda " happened " as things do.
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Frogboy
messiah1
Join Date 10/2005
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Reply #17 June 13, 2006 7:28:15 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Brad,
I posted an NHL logo, maybe you should take it down. I'm fine with that.
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Frogboy
Double Zero
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #18 June 14, 2006 12:08:00 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Brad,
I personally would like to thank you for these clarifications and updates yet to come. Wincustomize has regained my continued support... obviously I was one of the "confused" within the linked thread, but you have cleared the issues up very well.

We have struck a middle ground (so no one will be quite happy).


I for one am very happy with the "middle ground", it is much better than the bottom floor, LoL.

Thanks!
Z.
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Frogboy
ZubaZ
Join Date 11/2001
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Reply #19 June 14, 2006 12:35:16 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Wincustomize has regained my continued support


Welcome back DZ.

Posted via WinCustomize Browser/Stardock Central
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Frogboy
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Reply #20 June 14, 2006 2:21:40 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
It's great to see these issues being worked on and clarified. And I do think it's a very good step to be able to post rips on the boards. Not every single "suspect" thing need to be posted, but the blatant rips that a person knows for sure are rips should be posted for quick removal. And if you have a link to the skin that was ripped, that's always helpful to the mods to verify it.
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Frogboy
seldomseen
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Reply #21 June 14, 2006 4:56:27 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Ditto #19
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Frogboy
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Reply #22 June 15, 2006 12:24:28 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Thanks Zubaz & Seldomseen...
Sorry for the delayed reply, I have been a bit busy...

Take Care,
Z.
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Frogboy
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Reply #23 June 16, 2006 12:09:57 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Double Zero - thanks!
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Frogboy
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Reply #24 June 16, 2006 2:36:48 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
This bootskin Link is using Adni's Vista-1 wall
Link No permission implied or included.

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Frogboy
BX
Join Date 10/2001
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Reply #25 June 18, 2006 2:11:25 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
This bootskin is using Adni's Vista-1 wall
No permission implied or included



and it's gone ...
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