Lets face it Win 8 Sux

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2411

Win8 is faster (considerably so) on older hardware (I've tested that extensively) and while that might not matter to those who can just purchase new hardware, there are those who might still be running machines like my 2005 notebook and although my notebook initially shipped with XP was then upgraded to Vista Business, Win7 Pro and now Win8 Pro it is Win8 that runs the most efficiently and smoothly.

I concede that Windows 8 runs better on older hardware but I don't think that's the main market. On a NEW machine, Windows 7 is a better choice than Windows 8 IMO for getting work done.

Nicer looking but less effective task manager? I'm not sure I understand that as in the 'more details' view the task manager provides all of the info it used to and then some. Different and will take some getting used to (if you're like me and the first thing you ever open when your system boots is in fact the task manager) but certainly not 'less effective'.

It requires an extra step to get to the stuff I want to kill off. That's less productivity.

Smaller memory footprint also very welcomed since as I stated Win8 Pro runs flawlessly (at least as a 'connectivity machine' and not a dev platform of course) on my 2005 Inspiron with only 2GB of RAM. Of course seeing as it is so old the hardware only supports the 32-bit version so take that for what it is.......

But most people with Windows 8 aren't running 8 year old hardware. I haven't had less than 4GB of memory since the Windows XP days. I'm not suggesting my high end setup is typical. But even your typical law office or <insert company here> is not running a bunch of ancient hardware. They've got 4GB or more.

Explorer again may be a tad foreign to the advanced user with the 'office-esque' tabs thrown in but I think over time (once a person weathers the learning curve) one might even find the new explorer to be faster in doing the 'usual tasks'. I mean lets think about this, many of us have spent many years with the old explorer (and task manager etc.) it would only be fair to expect it could take some time to really give the new menus/window structures a real go. I guess time will tell....

It requires more screen space and doesn't have an option to reduce it. The office style UI doesn't make it better at doing any common tasks (if there's on you want to specify, I'd lvoe to hear it).

I don't mind new ways of doing things. I use my Surface RT daily. I like it. But the Windows 8 UI - explorer and Metro - are both less effective measured in terms of number of steps to complete a task and the use of space to do it.

But I want to emphasize this, RT is a terrible platform. It's not competitive. It may get better. But it's inferior in every way to Android and iOS for creating useful apps. Moreover, the fact that on a PC you don't know whether your app is doing anythign when it's not the active app is very problematic.

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 101

Moreover, the fact that on a PC you don't know whether your app is doing anythign when it's not the active app is very problematic.

I had a post towards your earlier comments mentioning I consider it a superset rather than a subset (since devs can't use Visual Studio 2005 and DX9 and stuff like that and hobble my $1200 machine )

But the browser ate it, which is kinda funny.

Nothing in RT really does anything in the background. Some light tasks can be denigrated to the OS, but other than that they only continue to run if you move them off to the side instead of alt tabbing.

At any rate, I'm going to get some sleep...here's the stuff I'd be more interested in discussing if you give a crap.

http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/10/windows-8-and-winrt-everything-old-is-new-again/

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 101

I concede that Windows 8 runs better on older hardware but I don't think that's the main market. On a NEW machine, Windows 7 is a better choice than Windows 8 IMO for getting work done.

While I don't think the market for Win 8 is the oldest of old hardware I also don't think 'new' hardware is the target for Win 8 either. Just look at their price-point.......I'm thinking upgrading somewhat newer hardware is probably their target there.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 101

It requires an extra step to get to the stuff I want to kill off. That's less productivity.

Ok I guess if you're having to constantly kill stuff off I can see your point, but then I'd be asking what you're doing to have to kill stuff off constantly? I mean aren't you losing productivity there already (the actions in having to kill stuff constantly)?

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 101

But most people with Windows 8 aren't running 8 year old hardware. I haven't had less than 4GB of memory since the Windows XP days. I'm not suggesting my high end setup is typical. But even your typical law office or <insert company here> is not running a bunch of ancient hardware. They've got 4GB or more.

Again, I'm aware of that. My test of running Win 8 on the 2005 notebook was a test after all. The point being that Win 8 handles older hardware better than other Windows OS's of the past.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 101

It requires more screen space and doesn't have an option to reduce it. The office style UI doesn't make it better at doing any common tasks (if there's on you want to specify, I'd lvoe to hear it).

While I don't personally think it is 'better' at doing any of the common things (as yet), I have had some people comment that having explorer mimic office menus has enabled them to find options they would have otherwise missed and some people don't mind the extra screen real estate being used (many people run more than one monitor these days) if it means more things are more easily 'toggle-able'.

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Love Windows 8. It takes some getting used to but it's awesome.

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Quoting the_Monk,

reply 103

some people don't mind the extra screen real estate being used (many people run more than one monitor these days) if it means more things are more easily 'toggle-able'.

So the work-around for a clunky GUI is multiple monitors.....

That's a bit like the solution to multi-tasking is to have multiple computers....

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Hi all, thought I'd join the discussion. I love Windows 8. I've installed it on my desktop, my laptop, my dad's laptop, my mom's laptop, my sister's computers, and most of my clients. Everyone has been liking it better than Windows 7.

Instead of everyone having to press the start button, programs, all programs, the desired software folder, and then the software we want to use, we simply single click the desired tile on the Start screen. Easy pesy. We all love the syncing with our Microsoft accounts. All our mail, calendars, contacts, and settings sync. Even my laptop and my desktop sync back and forth.

If you really worked with it and checked out all of the features and advantages, you might be pleasantly surprised. Oh, and there are lots of keyboard shortcuts that actually increase your productivity.

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 101

I don't mind new ways of doing things. I use my Surface RT daily. I like it. But the Windows 8 UI - explorer and Metro - are both less effective measured in terms of number of steps to complete a task and the use of space to do it.

I said the same thing a few months ago and got yelled at. Wonder why no one is yelling at him. Interesting.

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Quoting happyboy7,

reply 106

Instead of everyone having to press the start button, programs, all programs, the desired software folder, and then the software we want to use,

NEWS FLASH: A desktop shortcut will do the same thing with a double click of a single icon.(settable to a single click, if that's just too much effort) Alternately, it can be pinned to the taskbar and launched with a single click. Maybe they need to learn how to use their computers, not a new OS.

..........Just saying

And then there is the search box on the startmenu for those who know how to spell.

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RedneckDude

Join Date 04/2009

+2213

Quoting Jafo,

reply 105

Quoting the_Monk, reply 103some people don't mind the extra screen real estate being used (many people run more than one monitor these days) if it means more things are more easily 'toggle-able'.

So the work-around for a clunky GUI is multiple monitors.....

That's a bit like the solution to multi-tasking is to have multiple computers....

And, unless you do have multiple monitors, which most on the job PCs don't, most modern UI apps run full screen. No more multiple windows on one screen. PITA, IMO.

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Quoting Jafo,

reply 106

So the work-around for a clunky GUI is multiple monitors.....

That's a bit like the solution to multi-tasking is to have multiple computers....

I do not run multiple screens, I put that forward as a potential reason as to why some people may find that a non-issue. I personally do not find the small amount of lost screen real estate noticeable, I do not think the UI in Windows 8 is clunky or in need of a solution. More likely we users are clunky, in need of a change of operations and the solution to same is to approach the new OS with an open mind. I have done so and am having as good a time with it as you are with the previous version. In any case, we are both happy campers!

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i hate hominy and grits

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Quoting MadDeez,

reply 111

i hate hominy and grits

Add mush to that list but hominy isn't half bad, imho.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2411

I don't mind giving up screen space if there's a trade off. But there isn't. It's just bigger.

I don't get the idea that it's somehow easier to sift through the start screen rather than go through all programs in the event that the thing you want isn't in the most commonly run programs (which, incidentally, the new Start Screen has no equivalent to).

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Quoting kona0197,

reply 108

I said the same thing a few months ago and got yelled at. Wonder why no one is yelling at him. Interesting.

While I have no idea what was said, being a jackass to the owner of the forum you're on seems like a bad idea.

I mean uhh...mostly *grin*

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Phoon

Join Date 10/2001

+382

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 113

I don't get the idea that it's somehow easier to sift through the start screen rather than go through all programs in the event that the thing you want isn't in the most commonly run programs (which, incidentally, the new Start Screen has no equivalent to).

(My points are from a Desktop PC running Win8 Pro. I know nothing of RT at this point...)

I don't see it that way at all. For one, I absolutely hated the "Frequent" list generated on Win7 and always turned that off. I know what I use most frequently and I would Pin it to my start menu.

That "Pinned" start menu that I speak of is exactly what Windows 8 Modern UI screen is and it is a hell of a lot faster to navigate. If one takes the time to organize their new start screen in to categories of their choosing and unpin items that they do not use that often then it is even easier to navigate.

It can be brought up the same way the win7 start menu is triggered. Either by a box at lower left of screen or by hitting the Win key. Also, unlike the windows 7 start menu, you can quickly scroll through the Win8 start screen with your mouse wheel.

Right Clicking and showing All Apps is a bit unruly to sort through. Some header distinction would go a long way there for quickly honing in on the section you want.

As for searching... Why on earth would you search from the charms bar for a file?

The new explorer interface is a snap for things like that and just like anything else with Windows 8, you have to take the time to learn the new system. Once you do, and develop some new habits then they become second nature, just like the habits we all built with 7 and XP.

One helpful thing that I did was to add a "Computer" toolbar to my taskbar. Right click, toolbars, new toolbar. Click on Computer in the left pane and you have it. Turn off text and title and you have a nice equivalent of the old Quick Launch toolbar.

As for customizing Win8.

Decor8 was an excellent beginning and I greatly look forward to more.

Start8 is just a crutch and serves no purpose at all for those that want to take the time to learn the new system. In panic, I installed it at first, but once I forced myself to not use it I easily discovered that I was better off without it.

OblyTile is another good start for customizing those tiles. It isn't made by Stardock but I would be that you guys have something in the works along those lines. If not, then shame is upon you. .

Also, I look forward to seeing what windowblinds8 will bring to the table. If it is a step forward then I'm in. If it's a crutch which brings Start8 in to the picture, then I'll pass.

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Phoon

Join Date 10/2001

+382

Quoting kona0197,

reply 107

I said the same thing a few months ago and got yelled at. Wonder why no one is yelling at him. Interesting.

Well, I would guess it's because we all know that Brad has given it a good workout for more than a few moments and is basing his opinions on actual experience instead of heresay.

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Quoting Phoon,

reply 115

Also, unlike the windows 7 start menu, you can quickly scroll through the Win8 start screen with your mouse wheel.

Mine scrolls...

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2411

I want to create a new Meeting agenda which I do by using a previous meeting agenda file (a Word doc).

In Windows 7: I click on the Start menu, type Meeting Agenda and it instantly finds all my meetings. I can mouse over the files and it'll tell me the creation date.

In Windows 8: I open the Charms bar, hit search, type Meeting Agenda, then have to select the files search results (Metro arbitrarily splits search results between programs, settings, and files). Like before, there are multiple Meeting Agenda files. However, I have no idea which one because I can't sort or find out when the file was created.

Thus, the user is, I assume, expected to instead open Explorer and perform the same search they would have under Windows 7.

---

I have hundreds of programs installed on my computer for creating various types of visual designs. Many of them are very specific (like for creating relationship charts and diagrams). I need to load one of them.

In Windows 7: I open the Start menu, go to all programs, and it shows FOLDERS and I open up the "Diagramming tools" folder I created and launch the program.

In Windows 8: There is no folder metaphor in Metro. I can create "groups" but they're not labeled and I have many hundreds of programs installed. I'm expected to visually sift through the hundreds of programs to find the one I want (assuming I took the time to create a "group" which is vastly more effort than managing folders in Explorer).

---

I have to check out a huge new project that is in the cloud. It'll take an hour to do a full check out to get all the files.

In Windows 7: I load up the program, it starts to grab the files from the cloud. I launch another program to do something else, confident that the other program will do its thing.

In Windows 8: IF the program is written natively (WinRT) as opposed to "legacy" Win32 then I load up the program. It's a giant full screen app. It starts to grab the files fromt he cloud. I launch another program. I have no idea if my RT version grabbing program is going to work in the background or not.

---

So what am I getting in exchange for these showstoppers? I see things that are significant challenges to using Windows 8 as it's intended to use while still using a PC as a production machine but I don't see the benefits.

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As to point 1, you don't need to hit the Charms bar and click Search to search. You can search by just starting typing at any point in the Start Screen.

Point 2 I get. You can make a folder of shortcuts on your desktop and link to it in the Start Screen, but that's awkward.

As to point 3, you don't NEED to use WinRT for anything. I'm not sure why this is a 'showstopper' when the desktop is the same as it was in win7.

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

Well, I still haven't seen any compelling arguments as to why Win 8 sucks. There has been a couple of things for which are now done differently, and a couple of others for which there are perfectly acceptable workarounds... and a couple of others that are quite trivial and not that important.

In other words, there's a whole load of whining going on about nothing... and frankly, I'm done debating it. Bye!

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Quoting starkers,

reply 121

Well, I still haven't seen any compelling arguments as to why Win 8 sucks. There has been a couple of things for which are now done differently, and a couple of others for which there are perfectly acceptable workarounds... and a couple of others that are quite trivial and not that important.

In other words, there's a whole load of whining going on about nothing... and frankly, I'm done debating it. Bye!

I thought I was too. Honestly don't care if people prefer 7, no skin off my back. Just prefer it be informed rather than vague or inaccurate.

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Personally, I think if there's one thing that would be almost universally agreed on it's that MS is doing a really poor job of outlining their future plans.

http://ventspace.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/follow-up-on-directxxna/

As developers, we need Microsoft to communicate clearly with us, in public. As MVPs we were asked to act as community representatives, to guide everyone interested in the tech and have an open line on future development. Apparently that means we get half-hearted vague emails from time to time that dodges our serious questions and casts further doubts about the status of the technology and teams, all covered by an NDA agreement. And then, shockingly enough, people get the wrong idea. We’re sitting on the outside, trying to play this stupid guessing game of “which Microsoft technology is alive?” XNA doesn’t support DirectX 10+ or Windows 8, but it’s still a “supported product”, as if that means anything in the real world. Windows XP is still a “supported product” too.

It shouldn’t take a leaked email to force a straight answer.

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Quoting Savyg,

reply 122

MS is doing a really poor job of outlining their future plans.

you'll just to ask a first-level support guy in Sydney

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Uvah

Join Date 05/2006

+874

All this back and forth about Win 8. I don't have it so I can't say one way or the other but......just looking at the Start screen.....its butt fugly. No depth...no substance to it. Its all flat! I want stuff on my desktop (laptop) that I can play with. I want calendars and docks and icons and all the goodies SD makes. I can put them where I want, change 'em up even. Will Sysmetrix be supported on Win8? Only if Decker does it and the last update for smx was a year ago or close to it. If and when I get another machine, not any time soon though, it'll have Win 8 and be just another toy to play with. If I can't do what I want on Win 8 like I do on Win 7 then there's no sense having it other than just another toy.

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Quoting Uvah,

reply 124

Will Sysmetrix be supported on Win8? Only if Decker does it and the last update for smx was a year ago or close to it.

why wouldn't it work on Windows 8? the fonts will look worse if it uses GDI+ instead of Direct2D, but i doubt Sysmetrix users would even notice that.

Quoting Uvah,

reply 124

No depth...no substance to it. Its all flat!

i think it is ugly because it is not consistent. on the desktop it's an unfinished mixture of two different styles that do not go together.

nothing wrong with flat per se. after all all these bevels, shadows and gradients are just smoke & mirrors to distract from the low quality a computer monitor has compared to print. but now there are retina displays and the overall look of websites and applications will go closer to print. you see that gaudy stuff in biker magazines maybe but almost never in a quality magazine. overally the focus will shift to typography.

Windows 8 is not retina ready of course. :/

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