By hook or by crook…the evolution of “by mistake”.

By on October 31, 2015 7:04:22 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002
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I don’t mind that MS wants to market its newest product. It has its good and bad points, much like any other product does, open markets and all that.

What I do mind is forcible marketing, and using a tool which is indispensible to do it, and lying about “accidents”.

For those wanting to change over to W10, it’s pretty easy. For those who don’t, we have to fight an endless battle against W10 upgrade patches designed to prep our computers for the change to W10.

For the unwary, this led to cases where W10 actually was downloaded without informed consent. Then, about two weeks ago, W10 pushed the change to W10 forcefully to some systems and MS stated later this happened “by accident”.

Now, MS is intimating that this “accident” may soon become an actual situation for millions of W7 and W8 users soon. What’s most laughable (but I’m not laughing) is MS’s newest tactic, “in order to make it easier for users to find it”. Seriously? In the age of Google (or Duckduckgo if you’re smarter)?

Early next year MS plans to re-define W10 as a “recommended update”: This will automatically install W10 depending on how you have Windows Update configured. Please check your Windows Update and just have it notify you of updates available allowing you to choose which updates you install and which you decline. Otherwise, you may be quite surprised to encounter a whole new OS after updating your machine….especially if you configured Windows Update to install “Important” and “Recommended” updates automatically.

“To verify the current update preferences on Windows 7, do the following:

  1. Tap on the Windows-key.
  2. Type Windows Update and hit enter. This should open the Windows Update interface.
  3. Select "change settings" on the left side.
  4. Uncheck "give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates" under "recommended options".
  5. If you want, you may also switch from "install updates automatically (recommended)" to "check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them" to be on the safe side.

On Windows 8, you need to do the following instead:

  1. Swipe from the right edge of the screen, click on Settings, then Change PC Settings and finally on Update and recovery.
  2. Select "choose how updates get installed".
  3. Uncheck "give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates".
  4. Optional: Change how updates are delivered under "important updates".”

     - gHacks

This isn’t the only plan MS has. To end piracy…a good thing of itself, for non-genuine versions of Windows, Microsoft plans to launch an experiment in the United States first which provides users of these systems with an opportunity to purchase a genuine copy of the operating system directly via Windows Store or by entering an activation code.

Source:

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/10/30/beware-microsoft-plans-to-push-windows-10-on-even-more-windows-7-and-8-systems/?_m=3n%2e0038%2e1776%2ehj0ao01hy5%2e1uio

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October 31, 2015 8:15:23 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

My system which will [for now] remain 7 Ultimate until I decide to change it is set to 'notify only' and has NOT pushed me in any way to move to 10 [once the right KBs were removed].

Microsoft exposes itself to a MASSIVE class action suit world-wide were it to forcibly roll out 10.  All that is needed is for one Commercial entity to suffer system failure and lost productivity and people will be PUSHED out of MS windows.....no need to jump this time.

It simply will not happen.  Even Microsoft is not big enough to withstand the ire of Big Business.  The world's pockets are far deeper collectively than MS could ever hope to defend in court.

In reality, MS is simply sticking toes in waters and when it's too hot WON'T be chucking baby in not withstanding...

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October 31, 2015 8:29:33 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Mine is set to let me pick what I install.  But thanks Doc, this is important as its a bitch getting that systray icon off.

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October 31, 2015 9:50:11 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

 

Quoting Jafo,

It simply will not happen.  Even Microsoft is not big enough to withstand the ire of Big Business.  The world's pockets are far deeper collectively than MS could ever hope to defend in court.

Jafo, big corporations have IT departments to deal with those things, and the ability to put off updates until fully examined (if they're already on W10). 

This is directed to individual users and shows how to alter Windows Update to avoid getting surprised, and the reasons why it will happen. I really only reiterated what you yourself have said in other threads about "Notify only"...but it will certainly happen if the Windows Update mechanism is not changed on individual users machines as soon as W10 becomes a "Recommended Update" if their settings are not changed.

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October 31, 2015 10:07:39 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums


Early next year MS plans to re-define W10 as a “recommended update”: This will automatically install W10 depending on how you have Windows Update configured.

It'll download and start the installer. That's bad enough if folks don't pay attention and just OK through the window when it shows up, or if they're on metered internet. But no, it won't actually install the OS on its own. The installer requires human interaction.

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October 31, 2015 10:15:29 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,

 


Quoting Jafo,

It simply will not happen.  Even Microsoft is not big enough to withstand the ire of Big Business.  The world's pockets are far deeper collectively than MS could ever hope to defend in court.



Jafo, big corporations have IT departments to deal with those things, and the ability to put off updates until fully examined (if they're already on W10). 

This is directed to individual users and shows how to alter Windows Update to avoid getting surprised, and the reasons why it will happen. I really only reiterated what you yourself have said in other threads about "Notify only"...but it will certainly happen if the Windows Update mechanism is not changed on individual users machines as soon as W10 becomes a "Recommended Update" if their settings are not changed.

 

I appreciate the heads up, and the info about how to change my settings. Actually discovered i had already implemented Doc's recommended settings some time ago.  Appreciate heads up - nevertheless. 

 

BTW, IMHO, changing win 10 to a 'recommended update' is a tactic of sleezeware.  Win 10 is not sleezeware, but the tactic sure is. 

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October 31, 2015 10:25:18 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting kryo,



Early next year MS plans to re-define W10 as a “recommended update”: This will automatically install W10 depending on how you have Windows Update configured.



It'll download and start the installer. That's bad enough if folks don't pay attention and just OK through the window when it shows up, or if they're on metered internet. But no, it won't actually install the OS on its own. The installer requires human interaction.

You've actually seen it, kryo? The reason I ask is that I wonder if whether the act of ticking "install recommended updates" could bypass the need/requirement for such explicit consent.

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October 31, 2015 11:26:30 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Doc, as one who has installed Win10 over a dozen times, I can tell you that there are buttons to click on and choices to make during the install, these require human interaction.

I think Kryo is correct.

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October 31, 2015 11:39:54 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Isn't there an option for a custom install as well as the recommended one?

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October 31, 2015 12:27:38 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

We'll see, Jim. When it comes to MS, I'm not an optimist. 

I'll be quite happy to be too pessimistic on this. lol.

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October 31, 2015 3:12:06 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Thank you very much for the heads-up on this. 

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October 31, 2015 9:13:43 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I mentioned to a few folks when Windows 10 first became available that I wondered what MS would do if acceptance was as poor as that shown for Windows 8/8.1.  I guess I have my answer.  The sugar with the medicine (OS for free) still makes it hard to swallow the medicine.  It would be nice to be able to travel into the near future (a year or so) and see how MS is doing. 

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November 1, 2015 3:09:21 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting kryo,



Early next year MS plans to re-define W10 as a “recommended update”: This will automatically install W10 depending on how you have Windows Update configured.



It'll download and start the installer. That's bad enough if folks don't pay attention and just OK through the window when it shows up, or if they're on metered internet. But no, it won't actually install the OS on its own. The installer requires human interaction.

I'm not so sure about that.  If people have 'Install Recommended Updates' ticked, then the tactic of making Win 10 a recommended update would in fact install it on those systems, surely?   Microsoft has become that aggressive in trying to roll out Win 10 on as many machines as possible - from repeatedly downloading updates for the 'Get Windows 10' icon to un-hiding hidden updates and changing users update settings without consent - so I would not put it past them to pull a swifty like this.

Truly, I wish that MS would get the message.  I don't want Windows 10, and I've disabled all the means of getting it on my machines, which I'm sure MS must be aware of because I'm getting daily 'Get Windows 10' emails in my [Win 8.1 connected] hotmail account.  Might have to look into blocking MS if they persist.

Oh, and disguising Win 10 upgrade initiators as 'patches' to so-say 'fix system issues' is downright dishonest, deceitful and slimy.  People are getting duped, tricked into getting an OS they don't want, and it's not as easy to roll back to a previous OS 'with one click', as my sister discovered.  The system would not allow her to do so, something about permissions, so I will attempt to restore her machine to its former state from the [hopefully untouched] recovery partition when next I see her.

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November 1, 2015 4:02:43 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

starkers...I understand that logic. I don't understand why MS has to force it. They didn't with W98, Me, XP, W7, 8...seriously.

Surely the principle of "If you invent a better mousetrap, people will beat a way to your door" still exists. Be that as it may, it would seem that the principle that anything's fair on the way to the bank takes precedence.

kryo is very knowledgeable about computers and I do want to believe him, because I certainly don't believe MS and its stories about "accidents". I do know that if you change your settings the way we've all recommended, MS has no way to dl/dl &install it without your knowledge/specific consent...for to do so would invite a total disaster for the company. Incidentally, engadget is running this topic as well: http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/29/windows-10-upgrade-push-changes-things-for-it-pros-and-bootlegge/

 

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November 1, 2015 5:50:12 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,

I do know that if you change your settings the way we've all recommended, MS has no way to dl/dl &install it without your knowledge/specific consent...for to do so would invite a total disaster for the company.

That is also debatable!  Both Wiz and I had our download settings changed from manual installs to automatic, and not just once, either.  That's how the bastards got the 'Get Windows 10' icon back in my systray... twice.   It was only when I discovered this that I took greater steps to ensure its non-return.  Not only did I reset my downloads to manual install, I hide those updates responsible and ensure I check those settings daily.  Thus far I've not seen any of them return, but I suspect MS will continue to try foisting 10 upon me. 

Not that I read them, but the emails are damned annoying as well.  I have to sift through a bunch of stuff I'm simply not interested in.

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November 1, 2015 6:50:48 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting starkers,

Both Wiz and I had our download settings changed from manual installs to automatic, and not just once, either. 

I don't doubt it. I inspect mine everyday as well, but I trust them not at all...Hard to fathom beyond the 'profit now' motive why a company would become...well...predatory to that degree. It's beyond sad to come to regard such a company as one of the enemy. I wish they'd show respect, but that's demanding too much, I guess.

What can I say? Linux is looking better and better.

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November 1, 2015 6:57:42 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting starkers,

That is also debatable! Both Wiz and I had our download settings changed from manual installs to automatic, and not just once, either. That's how the bastards got the 'Get Windows 10' icon back in my systray... twice.

Either that is a fault with Win 8 or you did NOT disable the 'update offer icon' process correctly at all, in spite of claiming to do so.

Or maybe Win 7 is actually the SUPERIOR OS in that when you decide how you want your updates it stays that way....and on that rubbish 8 the capacity is actually ALREADY LOST.

 

Shock-horror....maybe that devotion to 8 is ill-advised and misguided....

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November 1, 2015 8:22:39 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Hey Doc, ya forgot to add W95.

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November 1, 2015 12:14:02 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

As with Jafo, every PC in my house, (and I have 4 running 8.1 and 2 running 7) has had the Get Windows icon removed, correctly, and hasn't returned.

No Windows Updates options for 10 either.

 

That said, while it is definitely evil for MS to try to sneak install 10, (which wouldn't happen anyway without your help), IF MS did miraculously get 10 installed without your knowledge, it takes less than 5 minutes to roll back. I have done the rollback thing and it works wonderfully.

 

I know, you shouldn't have to deal with that, I'm just saying.

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November 1, 2015 12:32:43 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting RedneckDude,

which wouldn't happen anyway without your help

We don't know that for sure...that's a supposition based on downloading installing W10 a different way. Don't forget who writes the code.

I sincerely hope they don't try that, and most probably they won't...but we'll find out.

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November 1, 2015 1:10:52 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Now that I know I'll be checking those updates too. Highlight each one and click on more information.

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November 1, 2015 5:56:38 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,

Either that is a fault with Win 8 or you did NOT disable the 'update offer icon' process correctly at all, in spite of claiming to do so.

Uh, Win 8 is at fault, eh?  A nephew on Win 7 had his settings adjusted to automatic installs as well.... which BTW has nothing to do with the '10 icon'  It's a related but separate issue.  And yes, I did follow the Windows 8.1 instructions to remove said icon AND hide the pertinent updates.  As Wiz will tell you, the settings for updates were reset, thus allowing the icon to be reinstalled..  It is also a common complaint across the board... for Win 7 and 8 users.  N

Also, not everyone has been as lucky as you and RND in not getting the icon back, some users have had it return several times after removing it and hiding the 'get 10' updates.  However, since installing GWX Panel, which is designed to counter MS' aggressive tactics, I've seen neither the updates or the icon.

There is nothing wrong with Win 7 or 8, just MS' aggression and persistence to force, bait, cajole users into upgrading.  While millions have grabbed the 'free' lunch with both hands, there is a considerable few who don't want what Win 10 has to offer... which frankly, ain't much... as far as users are concerned.  The real benefits go to MS, and with the new 'walled garden' concept, MS stands to profit considerably as it manipulates its captive market to toe the company's line.

Like Doc said, Linux is looking better all the time.

Quoting RedneckDude,

it takes less than 5 minutes to roll back.

Not on my sister's laptop.  Attempting the rollback [within the allotted time] returned an error message stating she did not have the right permissions, so not everyone is so lucky.   For many [novice to average] users, it'd mean they're stuck with a POS OS they don't want, and that's not how it should be

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November 1, 2015 6:56:35 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

 

Uh, Win 8 is at fault, eh?  A nephew on Win 7 had his settings adjusted to automatic installs as well.... which BTW has nothing to do with the '10 icon'  It's a related but separate issue.  And yes, I did follow the Windows 8.1 instructions to remove said icon AND hide the pertinent updates.  As Wiz will tell you, the settings for updates were reset, thus allowing the icon to be reinstalled..  It is also a common complaint across the board... for Win 7 and 8 users. 

"Either that is a fault with Win 8 or you did NOT disable the 'update offer icon' process correctly at all, in spite of claiming to do so."

I stand firmly by that.  The  'fix' is NOT about just removing the icon ...it is about preventing the entire process.  The icon is just one KB, and it's the least important.

WHEN it is done correctly it does NOT return.

The fact it may be a 'common complaint' simply means again...either 8 is at fault or they and those on 7 cannot follow the process.

 

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November 1, 2015 7:14:35 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Okay, Paul, have it your way, I'm done arguing.

I'm fully aware that the kb update files are responsible for the icon's placement.  They WERE uninstalled/hidden to prevent future downloads.... in accordance with the Win 8.1 instructions provided by ghacks. 

However, I MUST have done it wrong.

Thing is, I know what happened on MY system and I'm sick of being told I'm an idiot.

 

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November 1, 2015 7:43:50 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,

either 8 is at fault

Worked for me on 8.1 as well. No icon, no updates were reinstalled, and no Windows 10 being pushed.

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November 1, 2015 9:34:53 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting RedneckDude,

Quoting Jafo,

either 8 is at fault



Worked for me on 8.1 as well. No icon, no updates were reinstalled, and no Windows 10 being pushed.

It worked on all of my systems, however I cannot blindly assert all remained successful as 2 of them were quite soon after [matter of days] manually upgraded and thus the issue was moot, and one other I allowed to do the MS thing and annoy me with notices...[Terry's]

 

Starkers...no-one's calling you an idiot.  It is just that IF MS thought they had managed to push the icon and/or update configs to everyone no matter what they did and/or how they followed directions to avert it then they failed to do so because at least one system on the planet definitely did not change....and I expect the 2 others of mine if left as they were and not subsequently updated manually would still be as they were...

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