Sorry…it has gone too far

By on March 21, 2015 10:55:50 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002
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This has to rank way up there on the creepy scale.

You remember the creepy Samsung TV that eavesdrops on conversations in the room its located in? If you don’t, it’s here. The truth? TVs since becoming “smart” and “taking orders” by voice command (guess what other appliances do that?) and Stuxnet – you can’t say anything in your own home (or anywhere else they are). Samsung’s privacy policy:

“To provide you the Voice Recognition feature, some voice commands may be transmitted (along with information about your device, including device identifiers) to a third-party service that converts speech to text or to the extent necessary to provide the Voice Recognition features to you. In addition, Samsung may collect and your device may capture voice commands and associated texts so that we can provide you with Voice Recognition features and evaluate and improve the features. Please be aware that if your spoken words include personal or other sensitive information, that information will be among the data captured and transmitted to a third party through your use of Voice Recognition.” – Samsung

Samsung’s answer? “If you don't want your voice commands collected, you can disable the functionality (even though you lose some core TV features in the process).” Perfect asses.

Well, Mattel Corp. now has a great new Barbie doll: The “Hello Barbie”. It connects via Wi-Fi and also records kids’ commands and sends them to an external server “In order to improve voice command tech.” Really? Actually, it will be recording kids’ conversations and routing them to a corporation where all their likes and dislikes will be analyzed and info will be collected on their families and more…in fact anywhere the doll is located. In other words, your home has been bugged without a court warrant! New creepy level achieved!

Mattel is promising that security and privacy has been their top priority while crafting a doll that learns what kids like:

"Mattel and ToyTalk, the San Francisco-based start-up that created the technology used in the doll, say the privacy and security of the technology have been their top priority. "Mattel is committed to safety and security, and Hello Barbie conforms to applicable government standards," Mattel said in a statement." – Techdirt

I’m sure. In fact, the companies rushing face-first toward the billions in potential revenues from the "Internet of Things" market are so fixated on profit, that security and privacy have been afterthoughts -- if a thought at all. That's before we even discuss how this collected voice data creates a wonderful new target for nosy governments courtesy of the Third Party Doctrine.

Well, not to go over the edge, these “privacy standards” are quite concerning. After reading about this latest, I shopped Barbie. The flag really should have been tattered.

I hope this “smart device” craze causes folks to go back to plain old TVs, fridges and Raggedy Anne dolls…that are insentient and just do what they’re supposed to do.

I just hope Raggedy Anne isn’t going undercover.

Source:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150317/06423830341/barbie-joins-growing-chorus-people-devices-spying-you.shtml

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March 21, 2015 11:05:52 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

gosh, I thought it was illegal to record someone's conversation without permission. I'd think maybe illegal wire tapping at a minimum. But, yes, way creepy.

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March 21, 2015 11:07:19 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I'd be muttering 'rock spider' and all of a sudden the idea will be dead in the water.

Time to think about protecting kids...not exploiting them.

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March 21, 2015 11:24:17 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

"Hi, I'm Barbie, and I'm here to farm your children."

If there were ever anything that demonstrates the mentality that the general population is merely a herd of cattle, this would have to be it.  I honestly never dreamed that a Barbie would have to ship with a privacy policy.

Let's hope that absolutely no one buys these things and it gets filed in the "Really bad idea" cabinet.

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March 21, 2015 11:31:30 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

People are living creatures, NOT commodities.

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March 21, 2015 12:10:42 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

It never ceases to amaze me how "dumb" the average person can be and how they will basically sell their soul (in terms of freedoms and privacy) for something they think of as "cool"... I like to mess with the NSA and have taped over the front facing camera of my phone and tablet just in case they ever check in with me so that they'll scratch their heads. I know they've looked into me already as I've spammed my IP for years and why would any normal law abiding citizen do such a thing?!? lol

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March 21, 2015 12:29:22 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Much ado about nothing, imo. If you don't want your kids to have access to it, don't give them access to it.

The same can be said of those tvs. Obviously, the tv is going to be listening at all times if it has voice-recognition software that allows you to interact with it via voice commands. What should also be obvious is that the only way they're going to be able to improve that function is by monitoring it.

The statements made by Samsung and Mattel should go without saying, really. If you plan on using a tv that recognizes your voice and transmits data over the internet... don't go paying your bills on the phone in its vicinity.  Overreacting isn't going to change anything, and to be honest I don't really think there's anything that needs to be changed. Technology is going to advance whether you like it or not. There's really no point in fighting it. Resistance is futile...

Or maybe I'm just graciously awaiting our Cylon overlords...

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March 21, 2015 12:48:57 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I kind of agree with Kevin. The real problem has more to do with parents who will allow it. No one is holding a gun to your head and making you buy this crap but if a parent thinks it is a good idea for little Jane they are at fault.

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March 21, 2015 1:08:59 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Creep factor to...  11

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March 21, 2015 1:19:37 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Kevin_Walter,

Much ado about nothing, imo. If you don't want your kids to have access to it, don't give them access to it.

Easily said when someone tells you about it...but had the source not written the article, I certainly wouldn't have known.

How often have you researched Barbie Dolls and Third Party Privacy regulations?

Quoting Kevin_Walter,

What should also be obvious is that the only way they're going to be able to improve that function is by monitoring it.

Right...and Stuxnet is a "Quality Improvement Program" as well.

Seriously???

Quoting Kevin_Walter,

Resistance is futile...

Nope. I truly believe "going quietly" is not an option...which is why I wrote this article...and shopped Barbie.

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March 21, 2015 1:20:26 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I guess I haven't been properly conditioned yet.  I don't think it's reasonable to expect every adult who buys a doll for a kid to wonder if that doll is sending everything the kid says to a company.  I'm sure it will be "properly" disclosed in microscopic type on some pamphlet inside the box.  The average person who buys this will probably have no idea they're buying (at a minimum- marketing) spyware in a pretty package.

Honestly I'd think that, if nothing else, the fact that the intended end consumer is not of legal age would be enough to block this.

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March 21, 2015 1:27:05 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DaveRI,

Honestly I'd think that, if nothing else, the fact that the intended end consumer is not of legal age would be enough to block this.

But then you'd be forgetting that the adult parent/guardian allowing the gift acts legally as the minor's agent...and therefore it isn't illegal. That the adult didn't read the ant crap sized print? "Not our fault" will say the corporations' legal representation.

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March 21, 2015 1:34:01 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,

"Not our fault" will say the corporations' legal representation.

Undoubtedly.

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March 21, 2015 2:14:12 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,

...which is why I wrote this article...and shopped Barbie
.....and you did a damn fine job on both. Thanks, Doc.

Remember, Barbie comes with G.I.Joe, she fakes it with Ken.

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March 21, 2015 2:16:11 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Kevin_Walter,

Much ado about nothing, imo. If you don't want your kids to have access to it, don't give them access to it.

I didn't take the OP to do with that aspect but only how far a company will stoop to infringe upon their customer's privacy.

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March 21, 2015 2:26:32 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,
Easily said when someone tells you about it...but had the source not written the article, I certainly wouldn't have known.


How often have you researched Barbie Dolls and Third Party Privacy regulations?

I'd like to think most people are intelligent enough to deduce that a doll that not only comes packaged with voice-recognition software, but also connects to the internet, is likely going to be transmitting data on that very same internet. Most people.

Right...and Stuxnet is a "Quality Improvement Program" as well.

Seriously???

Right... comparing voice recognition software in an online-enabled tv is comparable to a virus that was designed to attack and disable Uranium centrifuges is completely logical and void of any fallacy what-so-ever...

To quote you... "Seriously???"

Nope. I truly believe "going quietly" is not an option...which is why I wrote this article...and shopped Barbie.

That's fine. You do what you have to do, but my original point still stands. Someday, none of us will be here. You know what most likely will be here? Technological advancement. You're not going to stop it.

Getting all worked up about the assumed invasion of privacy born of nothing but your own refusal to believe the press release and assume malicious intent seems only marginally shy of fear mongering to me.

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March 21, 2015 2:58:44 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Just my opinion, as others have voiced theirs, I don't see this or other products like it having a big market share and therefore finding it's way to the 'Failed Products' shelf.  Lots of products have come and gone that some developer/designer/company thought it was a great idea. 

 

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March 21, 2015 3:07:14 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Kevin_Walter,

I'd like to think most people are intelligent enough to deduce that a doll that not only comes packaged with voice-recognition software, but also connects to the internet, is likely going to be transmitting data on that very same internet. Most people.

I believe you are thinking that everyone knows what the young people know today. I have Grandchildren that can run rings around me with their Smart Phones. I expect that as they grew up with them. They range in age from 12 to 21. Now if I went out and purchased one of these dolls for my younger one I would have no idea about this stuff. I do now because of post like this but don't assume we all know about this knowledge. It doesn't make us older people are less intelligent but just not as up to date with all this new technology. 

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March 21, 2015 3:30:10 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DaveBax,
I believe you are thinking that everyone knows what the young people know today. I have Grandchildren that can run rings around me with their Smart Phones. I expect that as they grew up with them. They range in age from 12 to 21. Now if I went out and purchased one of these dolls for my younger one I would have no idea about this stuff. I do now because of post like this but don't assume we all know about this knowledge. It doesn't make us older people are less intelligent but just not as up to date with all this new technology. 

So are you trying to tell me that if you picked up a Barbie on the shelf at Wal-Mart that said on the box that it can recognize your voice and interface with the internet... the very same internet you'rte using right now... that you wouldn't be able to draw the conclusion of whether or not you want your younger grandchild to have a doll with that functionality?

Not to mention, this thread reveals very little. It explains the basic concept of the features of these products, posts the press releases from the companies relating to these features, and then simply makes the implication that the press releases are meant to obfuscate some kind of malicious intent behind the products themselves.

It all reeks of wanton tinfoil-hattery. As if the government really cares about what it might be able to overhear from a crummy microphone crammed into a Barbie that's probably going to end up in some little girl's closet for 9 straight months at a time anyway when they could simply monitor your phone calls and get away with it under the Patriot Act. 

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March 21, 2015 3:38:50 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Kevin_Walter,

Right... comparing voice recognition software in an online-enabled tv is comparable to a virus that was designed to attack and disable Uranium centrifuges is completely logical and void of any fallacy what-so-ever...

To quote you... "Seriously???"

The Stuxnet worm and its relatives Duqu and Flame had modules to take pictures of the people using the computer and to listen/record and transmit voice conversations as well.

Seriously.

Quoting Kevin_Walter,

You're not going to stop it.

The idea is to direct it constructively and away from invasion of privacy, not to stop it.

Quoting Kevin_Walter,

I'd like to think most people are intelligent enough to deduce that a doll that not only comes packaged with voice-recognition software, but also connects to the internet, is likely going to be transmitting data on that very same internet. Most people.

You assume that most people take those additional steps and/or have your understanding of technology. Most people of a certain age might very well think that blue tooth technology will cause more Dentist visits, while those of different ages have no conception of privacy of data. Some people might just think "Oh! A talking doll that follows orders! Little Sally wanted that, let's get it for her!".

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March 21, 2015 3:51:00 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,
The Stuxnet worm and its relatives Duqu and Flame had modules to take pictures of the people using the computer and to listen/record and transmit voice conversations as well.


Seriously.



Again, you're comparing consumer-level software in a smart tv to a virus that was designed with the sole purpose of destroying hardware. The fact that it had additional functionality that might be comparable to something else is irrelevant. It's akin to comparing IconPackager to Stuxnet because they're both designed to run on Windows PCs. It's absurd.


The idea is to direct it constructively and away from invasion of privacy, not to stop it.


Well first of all, you're working under the assumption that privacy is being invaded. Secondly, attempting to redirect the assumed outcome to what you consider a more favorable one is a form of stoppage in its own right.

You assume that most people take those additional steps and/or have your understanding of technology. Most people of a certain age might very well think that blue tooth technology will cause more Dentist visits, while those of different ages have no conception of privacy of data. Some people might just think "Oh! A talking doll that follows orders! Little Sally wanted that, let's get it for her!".


Not everyone understands how a PC works, either. Are we to have some kind of licensing system that teaches them how not to share their information before they're allowed to purchase one?

Hell, kids use the internet all the time.

Someone not understanding how technology works is not a cause for action of any type. You may as well... ban Big Gulps because people can't control themselves and are getting fat.

Oh wait......  

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March 21, 2015 4:18:52 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Frankly, if you're that feching lazy that you need voice regognition to replace your TV remote, then you deserve to be spied upon.

As for the Barbie doll, I'd be kicking that to the refuse tip if a child or grandchild of mine was ever given one.

Creepoy isn't the word... try downright illegal.  Well if it isn't it feching should be.  It exploits kids and has the potential for much worse.

Mattell ought to be ashamed of itself for even considering it, much less marketing it.

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March 21, 2015 4:22:02 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting starkers,

Frankly, if you're that feching lazy that you need voice regognition to replace your TV remote, then you deserve to be spied upon.

As for the Barbie doll, I'd be kicking that to the refuse tip if a child or grandchild of mine was ever given one.

Creepoy isn't the word... try downright illegal.  Well if it isn't it feching should be.  It exploits kids and has the potential for much worse.

Mattell ought to be ashamed of itself for even considering it, much less marketing it.

Mattel should be ashamed of themselves for developing a toy that has the potential to interact with children, offering more opportunity for learning and stimulation, all because you're under the assumption that they're going to use it to spy on people...

 

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March 21, 2015 5:04:16 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Kevin_Walter,

Again, you're comparing consumer-level software in a smart tv to a virus that was designed with the sole purpose of destroying hardware.

Read more carefully. It and its variants were worms designed AS WELL to collect information, not just destroy centrifuges...and harvesting peoples' information, etc. without their knowledge and consent is unethical. Hey, why not include a camera...who knows what you'll see?

Quoting Kevin_Walter,

first of all, you're working under the assumption that privacy is being invaded.

D'oh.

Quoting Kevin_Walter,

Not everyone understands how a PC works, either. Are we to have some kind of licensing system that teaches them how not to share their information before they're allowed to purchase one?

Now who's comparing apples and oranges? You can expect a computer to collect information...but a Barbie Doll? Ridiculous.

No! People should expect a Barbie Doll to collect and transmit info...and advise your kids as to career choice, and anything else a corporation or government decides to indoctrinate them with. "A man's home is his castle" has turned into "A man's home is a data collection point."

People should expect their refrigerators to play advertising and spy on them...and their pacemakers and "smart cars" to receive hostile programming over the net.Remote access execution takes on a whole new meaning.

 

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March 21, 2015 5:23:34 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I never said the Barbie wouldn't be collecting information. That's the stated purpose.

I'm arguing against your assumption that A: This is an invasion of privacy. and B: That this is an inherently bad thing.

I already explained why Stuxnet is not analogous... at all. Maybe you should do some reading on composition/division.

And no, I'm not comparing apples to oranges. I'm using a reasonable analogy to bring to light the reason why your argument is irrelevant. Just because someone might not understand something is not a valid reason to fear it. Plenty of people didn't (and still don't) understand how the internet worked/works. If everyone had your mentality and decided that it was something to be feared instead of a tool to be used, then it likely wouldn't be nearly as useful as it is today. Personal incredulity is a logical fallacy and a non-argument.

The rest of what you said is nothing but strawmen and hyperbole. 

By the way, the key to this conversation is the fact that the "invasion of privacy" presupposes malicious intent. D'oh! 

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March 21, 2015 5:33:27 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Well, we'll agree to disagree, then. I maintain that it is an invasion of privacy that it isn't desirable. We won't convince each other.

 

I do hope you finish that skin...it looks really promising.

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