iOS 8 and The 5th Amendment

By on October 12, 2014 7:51:34 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002
+2261

 

This is not a political post. I want that absolutely clear from the onset. This is about the impact iOS 8 (and others in the future) on our privacy and our individual rights and those of society.

This post is only to demonstrate how the corporate avoidance of compliance with the law (FISA Subpoenas) has set up a situation where law enforcement and Court orders can result in contempt citations and imprisonment when a person refuses to comply based on his/her 5th Amendment right to refuse to incriminate him/herself.

The new privacy policy of Apple places the responsibility for one’s data in his own domain. Apple will have no way to access any data stored on its servers. The individual user encodes his data and the password is known only to him. It prevents access by anyone on the outside.

FBI Director James Comey said,

""I am a huge believer in the rule of law, but I also believe that no one in this country is beyond the law," Comey told reporters at FBI headquarters in Washington. "What concerns me about this is companies marketing something expressly to allow people to place themselves beyond the law…

The notion that we would market devices that would allow someone to place themselves beyond the law, troubles me a lot," Comey said. "As a country, I don’t know why we would want to put people beyond the law. That is, sell cars with trunks that couldn’t ever be opened by law enforcement with a court order, or sell an apartment that could never be entered even by law enforcement," he continued. "Would you want to live in that neighborhood? This is a similar concern.

"The notion that people have devices, again, that with court orders — based on a showing of probable cause in a case involving kidnapping or child exploitation or terrorism — we could never open that phone?" Comey asked. "My sense is that we’ve gone too far when we've gone there." – Huffpost

He then went on to use the ‘ticking bomb’ scenario, or a kidnapped child. True, those are possible scenarios. How often? Well, we’ve been told of terrorist plots disrupted by the NSA, but we’ve also become the audience to Wikileaks, Snowden and the ‘data acquisition’ by the NSA (all over the world). Jurisdiction, along with common sense and civility don’t seem to exist when it comes to the internet.

This whole situation is the anticipated pendulum swing caused by the ever increasing demands for data by law enforcement and the NSA and other Federal Agencies. This is the result of accusations and denials of the FISA court’s ‘rubber stamping’ surveillance requests. In fact, it (as of 6/7/13) hadn’t denied such a request for almost four years). I also remember James Clapper, the Director of National Intelligence, added that “all information that is acquired under this program is subject to strict, court-imposed restrictions on review and handling.” Then we found out that the metadata was stored (in direct violation), and how much could be learned from that metadata.

I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me that by Apple’s new technology putting all personal data in the user’s hands, a classic battle is gearing up to happen.

The results? If you want your data, you can keep your data as well as the consequences. I have no doubts that people will be imprisoned for refusing to allow their data to be breached (think freedom of the press, 5th Amendment) on principle as well as criminals hiding evidence. How will they be differentiated?

I think SCOTUS is going to have to resolve this one.

Please keep the discussion apolitical.

 

Source:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/25/james-comey-apple-encryption_n_5882874.html

http://www.salon.com/2013/06/07/despite_obamas_claim_fisa_court_rarely_much_of_a_check/

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October 12, 2014 8:43:22 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I have zero apple related save for quick time player. No smart phone, no nothing! Can't stand all this bull with regards to iOS 8 or anything else. Time for Uncle Sam to call it quits before someone does it for him. IMO 

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October 12, 2014 9:02:27 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I posted about this earlier in another thread.

The purpose of this "debate" is to give the illusion that your data is safe with the big giants (Google/Apple). It's not. It's a PR move that was to be expected after the backlash against US tech industry.

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October 12, 2014 1:01:04 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

It may or may not be genuine protection, may or may not be just a PR move.  But there needs to be a way to protect our privacy.  Given the choice between trusting an all-knowing state to treat me fairly, possibly in the process preventing some potential crime, and maintaining my privacy, which unless I'm a criminal won't harm a soul, I'll maintain my privacy.  To suggest that the only way law enforcement can even suspect I am a criminal is by knowing everything about my digital behavior in real time is ludicrous.  If there is sufficient suspicion to convince a court that I may be engaged in criminal behavior, then a warrant should enable law enforcement to examine my digital communications, assuming they would be pertinent to the suspected criminal behavior.

This fear-mongering claim that law enforcement must know everything in order to know anything is bunk.  No free society should permit it.

Kudos to Apple.

If the policy is genuine, of course, and not just a misinformation campaign hatched between them and the feds.

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October 12, 2014 2:48:24 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

We're in complete agreement. Besides, email has to arrive at an ISP before your server, so that is still watchable. Besides, the "suspect" might merely be a person in someone's email contact list from when they were in high school together, this surveillance thing is way overdone.

I doubt any dumb little 'privacy app' actually gives the NSA a problem...they have their own Cray or whatever super computer/s. They can always plant an app that could leach the encryption code on a suspect's phone. Besides, the FISA Court has modified very few requests and turned down none in years, so the ISPs are still vulnerable to requests.

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October 12, 2014 3:22:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

So, thanks to Snowden and others we now have a rough understanding of how deep the rot goes. Every US company of significance can be squeezed, and has embedded employees. US companies are brought into line not only through corruption and disloyalty, but using official bribes of cash and technology insight. Threats of going public are met with injunctions from the secret courts. All this is true.

What we're seeing now is the next step in the machinery. Everybody knows that the three letter organizations are in bed with the major companies. And that's generally considered bad, because the tech industry is the most globalized industry there is. The response is to produce the illusion that the companies are "fighting" the thee-lettered. 

I don't blame the companies or the three-lettered for trying to peddle this illusion. It's an entirely rational response, albeit almost comedic in its predictability. But it completely avoids the important questions: How do we know when it's gotten better? At what point should I, as a private consumer, or perhaps a business owner, buy into this again? This is the true challenge that their PR should focus on, and I think they'll find that the damage they've done will be immensely hard to repair.

 

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October 12, 2014 6:03:47 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,

How do we know when it's gotten better?

We don't and will never really know (not that we ever knew how bad it was anyway).


Quoting Heavenfall,

At what point should I, as a private consumer, or perhaps a business owner, buy into this again?

Never. 

I say that knowing that we all will 'buy into it' again, because we have so often before and well to put it bluntly, us 'buying into things' is exactly what allows this world to keep going.

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October 13, 2014 4:55:22 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I think its a case of extreme paranoia on the 'so called' three lettered. Look at all the BS that went on during the McCarthy era. Everybody was suspected of being a 'commie'. Is this any different?

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October 13, 2014 10:26:34 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Uvah,

Everybody was suspected of being a 'commie'.

And most of those suspected of being indeed were.  Just because you're paranoid...

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October 13, 2014 1:27:12 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I don't think Ole Blue Eyes, Frank Sinatra, was a commie. In with the mob yes but not a commie.

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October 13, 2014 4:03:20 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Daiwa,


Quoting Uvah,

Everybody was suspected of being a 'commie'.



And most of those suspected of being indeed were.  Just because you're paranoid...

 

And? So what? If they were or weren't it was none of the government's business unless they were plotting the violent overthrow of the government. All it was? A suppressive witch hunt...and completely unconstitutional.

Hoover was the equivalent of the most corrupt of police organizations collecting all the info that he did...illegally.

He used it to extort Presidents, Congressmen, Judges...you name it.

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October 13, 2014 4:40:05 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Didn't know we were talking about Hoover.  Since you brought him up - Truly evil, that man.

I agree not the government's business in the sense of knowing one's thoughts/beliefs, unless actively working to subvert/sabotage/overthrow the republic.  Many were.

But, 'Is you is or is you ain't?' just for label's sake, no thanks.  I don't care if someone practices or converts to Islam, privately or otherwise, but I sure care if they decide to take up jihad and seek to harm US citizens/infidels.

OT, but if current demographic trends & birthrates don't change, the west will cease to exist as we currently know it in 2-4 generations anyway.

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October 14, 2014 7:47:38 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,

The purpose of this "debate" is to give the illusion that your data is safe with the big giants (Google/Apple). It's not.
What he said.  Zeitgeist is just a pendulum.
Quoting Daiwa,

OT, but if current demographic trends & birthrates don't change, the west will cease to exist as we currently know it in 2-4 generations anyway.
Anglo's are already a minority in the US, and Canaanites believe it's all about the religion, not the bloodlines.  The West as a consumerist propulsion of global economic growth is sawing off it's own limb.  Peak Oil is here - soon to be followed by Peak Food, Peak Water, Peak Housing, Peak Health, and Peak Population.

I'm founding the Church of the Tip of the Iceberg just as soon as I decree which technological deckchairs need arranging. 

 

 

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October 14, 2014 8:42:10 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Protoplazm,

I'm founding the Church of the Tip of the Iceberg just as soon as I decree which technological deckchairs need arranging.

...as long as you don't hang out over the front of the boat and launch into song....

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October 14, 2014 10:28:29 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

As for my OT comment, I see OZ is getting serious about keeping OZ, OZ, Jafo.  At least for public consumption.

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October 15, 2014 6:24:58 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I believe that Android is also following suit.

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October 15, 2014 7:47:49 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Jafo,

...as long as you don't hang out over the front of the boat and launch into song....
"I'm the King of the Chicken Little's!"

Start at 120:20 - A gift:

And a stirring reminder of twilight's last gleaming:

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October 22, 2014 8:58:27 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Its always about power.  Getting it.  Keeping it.  Expanding how much they have.  And hindering competing power centers from 'interfering' with your own power growing plans.  Its always about power.

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October 22, 2014 9:53:19 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

We live in an age where if you don't want it public, don't post it.

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