too many master skins

By on September 22, 2014 10:03:09 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

PixelPunk

Join Date 07/2001
+5

There are simply too many master skins and too few other skins.  Front skin page.... 2/3 are master?

And for some reason, the windowblind skinners are the majority of the master skinners on wincustomize.  Just look at all the other stardock products that have a lot of skins that are.... free?  Maybe Windowblinds should be free, and stardock could make their money from the subsidizing/distribution of the skins themselves.  I dunno, but I am getting leary of continuing my subscription when I can't find anything useful.  Even the quality of the master skins is often on par somewhat to what was free just a few years ago.  We all know your mileage may vary on some skins due to design flaws, so having them mostly master is kind of scary.  I have heard the argument that the artist should be paid for their work... but these prices are not right.  I have heard the skins are like music, and one would pay for music.  Okay, how about $.99 for a skin, but $4.95-$5.95?  Perhaps more skins would be sold if there price was similar to a song on itunes.  There is something to be said about volume sales.  I would be more willing to purchase them at a song price rather than an album price.   

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September 23, 2014 12:32:47 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I can see your concerns, but with reference to the [recent] greater percentage of skins being from Masters [and Commercial Master skins] is that over the years Windowblinds has become far more complex to skin 'fully', compared with the origins of both the Win OS and Windowblinds itself.

It's considerably harder [greater learning curve] for those new to WB skinning, so there are comparatively fewer people entering the field than, say, 15 years ago.

Price-wise...a Windowblind skin is arguably an 'album', not a 'song', as it's longevity on the 'playlist' is greater than just one 'song'.  Some people simply stay using just one skin for 'most' of the time - only trying new ones for their novelty....

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September 23, 2014 9:17:07 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,

There are simply too many master skins and too few other skins.

It may appear that way right now. Some Masters are taking their great WindowBlind older skins and updating them to work with win 7 and win 8. The time to update takes much less than the time to make one from the start so you are seeing them quicker at this time. Doesn't take away the fact that each WB has taken weeks and hours to make. Master Skinner have taken years to earn the title they have and deserve. 

So you have heard the skins are like music. Not even close. When a song goes to iTunes or the other places for 99 cents the artist has already made Millions. A Master making and selling WindowBlind skins will be lucky if they make a couple hundred dollars.

If when on WC you go to the top. Explore and go through a few pages you will find many quality free skins. You stated you can't find anything useful. I take that as you can't find any WindowBlind skins you actually like. Not sure if that is you just looking at the screen shots or actually downloading and trying a skin. Screen shots only show a small part of the OS changes. Trying one will show all the customization through out the OS. Based on you not being able to find anything you find useful. I don't believe it would matter if a skin was sold for .99 or what they sell for now.

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September 23, 2014 9:21:11 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

http://www.wincustomize.com/explore/windowblinds

Several of the Master skins on the page right now are just updates to older skins that have been made compatible with Windows 8.  I update their skin dates so they'll show recent so people know they've been updated.

 

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September 23, 2014 9:33:42 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums


I have heard the argument that the artist should be paid for their work... but these prices are not right.

 

It's only this year that the percentage for the skinner has been bumped to 70%/30% in favour of the skinner... over previous years it has been 50/50... link..   you also deduct from that the 20% members discount it adds up to many hours labour for a very meager amount, depending on how much time the Master puts into the design of his skin.  Apart from the thoroughness of a Masterskin with all areas being skinned, you also need to take into account the superior graphic skills in creating each aspect of the design... some also being done in 3D now as well which is a further skill that takes time to learn and perfect.

Until recently, Masterskins have been required to be for XP, Vista & 7 as the different Windows versions grew... this vastly increased the amount of time spent and made them very laborious.... fortunately, Windows 7 then became the standard and now 7/8.

The new, more favourable % incentive has happily boosted the number of these superior skins on offer... and it increases choice for people.

It should also be noted that just recently, there are more than usual in the gallery due to older classics being updated for 7/8... and that's great news for people who have previously purchased these skins so they can continue enjoying them and get greater value from their purchase.... and great news for newcomers who may have missed out on these skins, to have the chance to add some classic skins to their Windows wardrobe.  Thanks to all the Masters who take the time to update their blinds.

 

Okay, how about $.99 for a skin, but $4.95-$5.95?

 

I'm thinking if you sat over the shoulder of say, vStyler, and watched just what went into one of these Masterskins, you would be pretty embarrassed by that statement...  

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September 23, 2014 9:38:38 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Island Dog,

http://www.wincustomize.com/explore/windowblinds

Several of the Master skins on the page right now are just updates to older skins that have been made compatible with Windows 8.  I update their skin dates so they'll show recent so people know they've been updated.

 

 

Yep, and of the 60 skins at that link PixelPunk, 18 of them are Master Skins. Of those 18 Master skins 9 of them are updates to Windows 8. Also, Master skins show up in their own separate area of the site on the front page if they are updates, not in the main area showing new skins. Only new Master Skins show up there. Personally, I don't see where you are coming from. 

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September 23, 2014 10:08:22 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

You're kidding, right?  There should be more Master skins.  Do you want quality or cheap crap?

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September 23, 2014 10:19:38 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Masterskins cost WAY too little is my opinion. The work put into them is Humongous !!

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September 23, 2014 10:44:16 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting neone6,

Masterskins cost WAY too little is my opinion. The work put into them is Humongous !!

Sure you have to skin a lot of parts and have to make a concept for the skin but it is not that much work compared to making a app that can be bought for a lower amount of cash.
Just compare the price to some prices for android games, these also have design elements to it, just take a look at those prices some are very well below 5 USD and they also have to code the whole thing.
While i do pay the price for a skin that i want , like many pay for an iPhone simply because they want to have it even though the shit is overpriced.
I have to agree with Pixelpunk that lowering the price tag may result in better sales, just like the fellow guy ( do not know his name ) did, who sold the clock gadget,  that many here bought as you can see in the monthly screenshot section.
Guess it is up to the skinner to decide what is best for them. 


 

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September 23, 2014 10:48:46 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

They are a bargain and the Master skinners do great work and deserve to be paid for it.

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September 23, 2014 10:51:51 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting GregII,

There should be more Master skins. Do you want quality or cheap crap?

Well, cheap crap is not accurate.  Blinds other than Masterskins are uploaded by members of the site who are hobbyists... everyone starts somewhere... they are offered/shared generously for people to use and in return they gain feedback and critiques to help them improve... some will end up as Masters... most won't... but it's not a competition or a money grab... the site is essentially for millions of customising enthusiasts, a percentage who will skin, not just download, who enjoy sharing their skinning... and some elite skinners who get to be rewarded for putting above average time/effort/graphic skill/design flair up for us to purchase if we wish.

 

Quoting benmanns,

Just compare the price to some prices for android games, these also have design elements to it, just take a look at those prices some are very well below 5 USD

Just compare how many people have android phones and tablets compared to how many people have Windowblinds... 

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September 23, 2014 10:56:42 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Hi,

it can take a month to even create a free skin, that is a bit better than normal free skins. A normal free skin takes a week to make.

Master skinners do normaly work some real hours on their skins , i do suppose so since my own only  color/gradient -based/focused  skins do take already enough time for me to make .

and:

Selling your skins for 0.9 USD doesn`t work. Have tested that myself with another theme plattform. So please do understand that.

 You can always modificate a free skin to you liking and use it after that  for yourself only .

The wincustomize community is great, and i don`t think we need a price change for master skins. Prices are fair in my opinion.

regards bluedxca93

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September 23, 2014 11:15:11 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting sydneysiders,

Just compare how many people have android phones and tablets compared to how many people have Windowblinds...  



True but not everyone is using the same app, like skins there are many different types of apps that do the same trick...
i just wanted to show that there is stuff out there that has more work put into it for a lower price. 
And those sell...  

Also i dont know the exact sales numbers of windowblinds to compare them to apps but according to the download numbers on some skins they are not small 

 

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September 23, 2014 11:16:36 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting benmanns,


Quoting neone6,

Masterskins cost WAY too little is my opinion. The work put into them is Humongous !!



Sure you have to skin a lot of parts and have to make a concept for the skin but it is not that much work compared to making a app that can be bought for a lower amount of cash.
Just compare the price to some prices for android games, these also have design elements to it, just take a look at those prices some are very well below 5 USD and they also have to code the whole thing.
While i do pay the price for a skin that i want , like many pay for an iPhone simply because they want to have it even though the shit is overpriced.
I have to agree with Pixelpunk that lowering the price tag may result in better sales, just like the fellow guy ( do not know his name ) did, who sold the clock gadget,  that many here bought as you can see in the monthly screenshot section.
Guess it is up to the skinner to decide what is best for them. 

 

Does anyone realize that an Android App/Game gets seen by literally millions of people, so therefore they can sell it at a lesser price and still MAKE tons of money for themselves, while a Master Skinner who spends 8-12 hours a day designing, 7 days a week, in the long run gets FAR LESS for their work? Their skins probably only get seen by maybe thousands, not millions, and they don't make hardly anything from it. Some people, like myself, do this just to make a living! Sorry, but this thread is becoming disgusting to me. Sheesh, some people just don't have a clue!

 

Oh, and Andy, you are absolutely correct! 

 

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September 23, 2014 11:16:58 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

LightStar you don’t need to be disgust by my comment even though you make a living of it,  I bought your latest skin.
Im just saying that there is apps out there that have way more work included than a windowblinds skin that’s the reality and some do not get seen by millions there is only a chance that  they will be a hit on the market.
My personal feeling is that many don’t buy skins because they offer only little for the money while there is enough free skins out there that does the same.
As you and others said that they put a lot of effort into it , I know how long it takes to make skin, it’s not like I never have done any.
But keep in mind that many here even Master skinners provide the same quality for free over and over or have been doing so over the past so I can agree with the point of Pixel there. You can hate me for it I don´t mind.
I simply said that it is up to the skinner to decide if they are willing to lower the price,  I wasn’t forcing anyone I just think it would be worth a test to see if  you can could actually make more profit that way and reach a wider audience.
That’s all…

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September 23, 2014 11:27:49 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting benmanns,

Also i dont know the exact sales numbers of windowblinds to compare them to apps but according to the download numbers on some skins they are not small 

 

Do you actually think that the number of downloads on a free skin is the same as what a Master Skin would make? No way!

I don't mind telling everyone that this quarter (July - September 2014) I personally have sold around $2700.00 worth of my work. Now, you minus about 36% of that for Stardock's deserved cut and member discounts, that leaves me about $1728.00. Divide that by 3 and I have made a WHOPPING $576.00 a month! Now, if you can live on $576.00 a month, more power to you, because I could not. Making ignorant comments is unacceptable. Sorry if I seem rude, but please stop commenting on that which you know nothing about.

 

 

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September 23, 2014 11:38:44 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting LightStar,


Quoting benmanns,

Also i dont know the exact sales numbers of windowblinds to compare them to apps but according to the download numbers on some skins they are not small 



 

Do you actually think that the number of downloads on a free skin is the same as what a Master Skin would make? No way!

I don't mind telling everyone that this quarter (July - September 2014) I personally have sold around $2700.00 worth of my work. Now, you minus about 36% of that for Stardock's deserved cut and member discounts, that leaves me about $1728.00. Divide that by 3 and I have made a WHOPPING $576.00 a month! Now, if you can live on $576.00 a month, more power too you, because I could not. Making ignorant comments is unacceptable. Sorry if I seem rude, but please stop commenting on that which you know nothing about.

 

 


Well then you should have a talk with Stardock.They are reasonable...
Im not here to fight... I think it depends on the situation you are in and true i dont know nothing about that
But im not making ignorant comments im just comparing two things with each other.
And as you said i will stop commenting.

 

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September 23, 2014 11:45:05 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I realize that DX ain't WindowBlinds. But I sold a whopping 16 skins when I was doing Master skins. Which I do not anymore.

 I'm here to tell you that no one is getting rich. And I have a few WBs in my gallery, and 3 unfinished ones on my PC. Unfinished because of the huge amount of work that goes into a decent WindowBlinds skin. SkinStudio is at best, seriously confusing and hard to master. And parts of it don't work like it's supposed to. You have to learn all the quirks and master the skinning engine, AND be a Master at graphics and design. These things don't fall into your lap. They require years of learning, practice, and finesse. Masters deserve the small amounts that they charge for their work. They earn every cent.

5 bux hardly buys a pack of smokes, or a 6 pack of soda pop. What can you buy with 5 bucks?

 

And if 5 bux is a big purchase for you, you should save the money, you need it for more important things.

 

Have a nice day!

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September 23, 2014 11:48:23 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting benmanns,

LightStar you don’t need to be disgust by my comment even though you make a living of it,  I bought your latest skin.
Im just saying that there is apps out there that have way more work included than a windowblinds skin that’s the reality and some do not get seen by millions there is only a chance that  they will be a hit on the market.
My personal feeling is that many don’t buy skins because they offer only little for the money while there is enough free skins out there that does the same.
As you and others said that they put a lot of effort into it , I know how long it takes to make skin, it’s not like I never have done any.
But keep in mind that many here even Master skinners provide the same quality for free over and over or have been doing so over the past so I can agree with the point of Pixel there. You can hate me for it I don´t mind.
I simply said that it is up to the skinner to decide if they are willing to lower the price,  I wasn’t forcing anyone I just think it would be worth a test to see if  you can could actually make more profit that way and reach a wider audience.
That’s all…

Unfortunately benmanns, no matter what price a Master Skinner charges, people flat out just don't like to have to pay for anything. So lowering the price would not do anything at all, except making it not worth making any skins in the first place. Why do you think there are so very little quality Master Skinner's left on the site? It is because the return on the amount of work required to make a Master Skin is extremely low. I also sell my skins on my own site, and I am lucky if I can make $20 a month there. The only active Master Skinner's left doing quality work here on WC are (IMO) myself, vStyler, adni18, and basj. I sure do miss Xiandi's and Vampothika's work too and I wish they would come back, and someone who should be a definite Master Skinner and isn't is neone6! Why he isn't a Master Skinner I have no idea.

I really do appreciate your purchasing my work though, every little bit helps. Thanks.

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September 23, 2014 11:51:19 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting benmanns,

Well then you should have a talk with Stardock.They are reasonable...

 

I already did that months ago, I am hoping that my doing so is what got the amount Stardock gets lowered to the 30% or so that it is now, but I have no way of knowing for sure. 

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September 23, 2014 12:00:25 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

In case no one noticed, the OP hasn't been back, and probably won't be. Just sayin.

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September 23, 2014 12:02:46 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Folks, we all must remember to read the signs when entering the forums, most important one being............ "DON'T FEED THE TROLLS"


Take a moment and visit the OP's profile and read their other threads.  You will get a sense of what this person's mind set is.  In other words, let it go folks. 

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September 23, 2014 12:09:23 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I have no problem paying for a Master skin - current price or even twice the price.   I appreciate the hard work it takes to make a quality skin and I have zero problem paying a person for hard work.  

I haven't bought a Master skin in a long time.  Not one skin I purchased is on my hard drive anymore, some never get past the first hour.  I'm fussy.  I know it.  I just wish there was a way to take a 5 or 10 minute run with a skin before purchasing it.  The screen shots don't always offer an accurate perspective on menus, highlighting, transparency, etc.   I'd happily pay more for a skin that I know I am going to keep and use without a lot of modfiying.   Paying for something that gets quickly deleted and not used isn't satisfying.  

Hope that doesn't take this topic off on a tangent.  Like others above, I am certianily not looking to argue.  I'm happy to find a way for the Master skinners to be better compensated for their work, but as a customer I want to feel satisfied with the value too.

 

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September 23, 2014 12:10:04 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Philly0381,

"DON'T FEED THE TROLLS"

I don't think he was trolling.... he made an observation of numbers of masterskins..... and a suggestion for a different approach to sales... of which we have all discussed with various outlooks... just a healthy discussion.. 

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September 23, 2014 12:15:52 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Goodness folks.  Relax.

 

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September 23, 2014 12:29:12 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

When I put up my first master skin I put it a bit low at $3.95 just to see if that can get me more sales as a startup. But now looking back at it... there is not much different selling at $3.95 of $4.95. In-fact my second one which selling at 4.95 are selling more than my first one. 

That shows there is no guaranteed correlation between price and demand in this one.

Just my opinion

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