Rating Trolling

By on July 11, 2014 11:39:53 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Island Dog

Join Date 06/2003
+759

I was made aware today (again) of someone rating trolling as I call it.  This is where someone is purposely giving a skin a "1" rating to bring down the ratings.  We (the moderators and admins) have been doing this long enough to know what a fair and reasonable rating is, and even giving leeway to that it's easy to see where someone is just doing to harm a skin rating.

The surprising part is this is done by people who have been here for years and are ranking members of the site.

Ratings have always been a touchy subject, but there comes a point where the actions of one member to clearly harm another members skin is something we won't tolerate.  As an example, we deleted over 30 "1" ratings made by one person on competing skins in the same category.  

From here on I will demote any member regardless of their current ranking who is doing this in a clearly malicious manner.

 

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July 17, 2014 4:19:09 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Kevin_Walter,

You guys should just make it so that you can't rate something without commenting on it , too. Maybe show what the person rated next to their comment.

Public visibility of your actions usually makes you more honest.

There is that. 

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July 17, 2014 8:18:29 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Uvah,

Quoting Kevin_Walter, reply 49
You guys should just make it so that you can't rate something without commenting on it , too. Maybe show what the person rated next to their comment.

Public visibility of your actions usually makes you more honest.


There is that. 

Governments everywhere are voted in via secret ballot to avoid intimidation [primarily].

If it's good enough for them...............................

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July 17, 2014 8:55:04 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

May I add something to the mix, thank you.

Lest we forget that those submissions that do not go through moderation are automatically given ratings that could be seen as too high or too low solely depending on the level of the contributor and not necessarily the quality of the work.

Ratings, given honestly and coupled with the number of downloads, provides good feedback for the authors.

Ratings are being monitored by staff to catch those commit drive-by down ratings.

My only destructive suggestion would be to name the culprits that do this and ban them from rating anything else.

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July 17, 2014 9:23:49 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,


Quoting Uvah,

Quoting Kevin_Walter, reply 49
You guys should just make it so that you can't rate something without commenting on it , too. Maybe show what the person rated next to their comment.

Public visibility of your actions usually makes you more honest.


There is that. 



Governments everywhere are voted in via secret ballot to avoid intimidation [primarily].

If it's good enough for them...............................

 

Well if giving a high or low rating on this site means life or death... by all means, carry on. 

 

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July 17, 2014 9:29:45 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Kevin_Walter,
Well if giving a high or low rating on this site means life or death... by all means, carry on.

It's OK....I'll just mentally throw rocks at you...

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July 17, 2014 9:57:16 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I agree with Boopish.  Will say I only rate that which I have downloaded and tested.

 

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July 17, 2014 11:18:59 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

^^^^^^

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July 17, 2014 11:54:43 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Trollin', trollin', trollin'
Trollin', trollin', trollin'
Trollin', trollin', trollin'
Trollin', trollin', trollin'
Trollers

She trollin', trollin', trollin'
Those ratings are swollen
Keep them skinners trollin', troller

Through rain an' wind an' weather
Hellbent for leather
Wishin' the troll was on my side

All the things I'm missin'
Good vittles, love an' skinnin'
Are lost 'cause the troller has lied

Move 'em on, ban 'em all
Ban 'em all, move 'em on
Move 'em on, ban 'em all
Trollers

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July 17, 2014 12:41:52 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Kevin_Walter,

Well if giving a high or low rating on this site means life or death... by all means, carry on. 

KW...we're talking about sheer numbers and patterns which cannot be disguised as anything but ratings trolling.

 

Quoting Fuzzy Logic,

Trollin', trollin', trollin'
Trollin', trollin', trollin'
Trollin', trollin', trollin'
Trollin', trollin', trollin'
Trollers

She trollin', trollin', trollin'
Those ratings are swollen
Keep them skinners trollin', troller

Through rain an' wind an' weather
Hellbent for leather
Wishin' the troll was on my side

All the things I'm missin'
Good vittles, love an' skinnin'
Are lost 'cause the troller has lied

Move 'em on, ban 'em all
Ban 'em all, move 'em on
Move 'em on, ban 'em all
Trollers

Set to the theme song of "Rawhide". Well done, Fuzzy. 

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July 17, 2014 2:58:57 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Uvah,


You guys should just make it so that you can't rate something without commenting on it , too. Maybe show what the person rated next to their comment.

Public visibility of your actions usually makes you more honest.
There is that. 

I like this. I realize that it will never happen and it would be a chore and then some to set it up....

but I picture sites like Amazon or others where you view the product and then you can click on the 'Reviews' tab and read an individulas review along with their rating...or just the rating should they decide not to write anything. 

 

AND a link to the a persons other reviews and ratings if you like their taste in skins or whatever.

So, I suppose if it could or did go THIS far, you could allow for some kind of rating sytem for ratings and/or reviews to help promote the whole concept as well as the art and artists.

or not.

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July 17, 2014 3:32:48 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I don't think that would prevent abuses of the 'currying favor' sort, though.

Voting is anonymous in democracies...they have to be. After all, they are a sort of pm.

What honestly should be imo (which doesn't count for all that much) is that the rating should be disabled until the skin is downloaded, and the same for comments. That would somewhat (but not completely) discourage 'drive bys'. In the end, while it's true that disabling anonymity would decrease negative ratings, it wouldn't disable friendly 'high' ratings...in fact, it would overly favor them.

The only real thing people should keep in mind is that they should be fair, constructive and honest...whether you like the work or not, give an honest criticism and hopefully one that can lead to improvement.

If you can't do that, then remember that Moderation sees the voting/ratings...and both Jafo and I.D. see them as well (they are Moderators as well as Admins), and abusers will be making enemies among the wrong people.

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July 17, 2014 6:56:59 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,
the rating should be disabled until the skin is downloaded, and the same for comments

 

Good thought. Keep it up!

 

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July 18, 2014 2:58:13 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I agree 99 percent with the download first, rate second, but, I do like to cast a visual vote based on screeny of Master skins, because I do not purchase(sorry skinners) masters skins, but like to show my support to others skinning by tagging some stars for them, that would stop that. I guess the trade would be fair though, look first, rate later.

Quoting Jafo,


Quoting Kevin_Walter,
Well if giving a high or low rating on this site means life or death... by all means, carry on.



It's OK....I'll just mentally throw rocks at you...

Why  is that still scary, even though it is just a thought he is going to have,Have a feeling it still might hurt!

None of that Amazon stuff, I wait long enough to load pages now, don't need more,lol.

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July 18, 2014 3:15:48 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

On the above post I made I mentioned master skins and ratings.

Elaboration begins.

I said support, but yes, at times may be lack of support depending on the skin screen capture. I try to base it on what is visible, is it creative, unusual, clean, color coordinated, all the key things you are able to get from an image.

With out paying for the skin, I have no other option other than to stay silent, yeah right!

Sometimes I may forgo a vote, because I see nothing that looks new or interesting in the screeny, and rather than be mean, just accept the fact that any skin took effort, any skin took time, and deserves fair judgement, and because I see nothing that looks fantastic or new, does not mean once downloaded it would not impress me as a great skin, so best to not vote or cast a upper star rating( 4 stars),because deep down I as a skinner know how much one puts into a skin, and that is worth something.Something else I utilize for master skins is, most describe the skin well and what os it is for and such, and in my opinion, doing any substyles or multi os is worth a bunch, so much extra work .

Okay, so this is the jist of my involvement with rating or trolling. If i have gone wrong, apologies to all affected.I can't pay five bucks to vote though,lol.

Lastly, I have no clue how any person knows who casts what, but I remember when I started skinning(trying), Ace Matrix gave me a good rating on a skin(vines), and after I pissed everyone off, because I was a know it all, he said in response, You see I gave you a good rating, now that is gone!I never knew how I was supposed to see what he rated and still do not, someone clue me in! Thanks for listening,DT1.

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July 18, 2014 8:46:05 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Sorry, but Screenshot rating shouldn't be.  How can one be fair if one doesn't download(in this case buy) the skin and test it before its rated?

That's like me telling someone to buy something that I don't own or have ever used.  Kind of like fraud.

There are times that I've seen a skin uploaded with 1 download and 3 ratings.

A lot of things happen that should not.

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July 18, 2014 9:31:17 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting WOM,

Sorry, but Screenshot rating shouldn't be. How can one be fair if one doesn't download(in this case buy) the skin and test it before its rated?

Oh that's just poppycock. People download based on the preview. If they don't like the preview, well....

That's like saying you can't tell if a car is good looking or not unless you buy it.

As a skinner (just speaking for myself here), why would I buy a master skin when I'm happy with my own creations. I've only purchased one master skin way back when because it was so ahead of it's time. http://www.wincustomize.com/explore/windowblinds/6336/

As far as tying comments to ratings, I can see a lot of hard feelings over something like that. And when we do we would get jumped upon by the PC police for being insensitive.

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July 18, 2014 9:45:39 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

gmc, your right, people download based on the preview. I didn't say they shouldn't, how else would they know if they might like it.  After they download and try it they rate.  So how is that poppycock?

Do you buy a car from just looking at it?  Think not, you test drive it.  I think you need to read and understand before you type.

Rating from just looking at the PREVIEW is not a fair rating.  You don't know how it works as you haven't tried it.  So how does one give it a 1, 4, 6,8 or 10?

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July 18, 2014 9:54:16 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting WOM,

people download based on the preview...Do you buy a car from just looking at it?  Think not, you test drive it.

Absolutely agree. That's why I think that rating and commenting should be enabled only for those who download the skin.

 

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July 18, 2014 10:59:01 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

It's just a windowblind. for the most part they all do  the same thing, what sets them apart is the graphics. Well, there are some that add animation to them but they are few and not graphically challenged (such as myself). The preview should represent the graphic overview so the casual observer can determine their interest.

You don't have to test drive a car you think is ugly to be sure it's ugly, c'mon.

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July 18, 2014 11:31:51 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting gmc2,

You don't have to test drive a car you think is ugly to be sure it's ugly, c'mon.

Agree, but, that doesn't give you the right to rate it and critique it. It might work just fine, and be technically perfect.

You wouldn't know those things w/o dl and applying it. Those are qualities which deserve attention and critiquing as well. Therefore, w/o dl and applying it, your critique devolves to "I don't like the hue/tone/shade and the buttons." Many skins can be recolored...so, what is your critique worth then?

Hence my comment re enabling rating and commenting/critiquing only after dl. Not perfect, but better than the existing, imo.

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July 18, 2014 11:56:56 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,

Agree, but, that doesn't give you the right to rate it and critique

and you say this in what capacity again?

I believe that Wincustomize says that I can.

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July 18, 2014 11:59:40 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I am glad GMC2 sees my side.

I do not , under normal circumstances , down rate, but try to give some type of opinion in the form of a rating. I usually comment when I vote, so no secret to my opinion.

But, as far as master skins, I am on board with gmc2, why would I pay when I can create. So, being a skinner , with experience, to what level is beside the point, I create decent work, and can tell if someone put extra effort in a skin by a preview for the most part. Is it the same as trying it, of course not, but one who struggles to advance in this site, assumes a master skinner has conquered margins, and settings, and visibility already and so I need not see that. On that note, learning to skin is hard, but thousands do it, so just to replace some images and not try to be different is a big deal to me, anyone can learn the settings part, creative is skinning.

So, I still want to vote without downloading, but not my call.

Lastly, who says a down loader even uses a skin, a friend could just click download, wait a few and then rate or over rate, or down rate if it is not a friend or happy user. Who says every user know a good skin. For most, shiny, new, that's all they need to be content. No offense meant to the users abroad, just something to consider.What good is a vote based on a screeny, about as good as a vote a downloaded skin in my opinion.

Okay, get me now,lol.

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July 18, 2014 12:16:56 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I know, shut up already. I have a curious confession.

By that I mean, in the past, and I only recall two occasions, I rated a skin with a one star, they were master skins, but  I honestly felt they looked like nothing special: does not mean not a great skin:, just not extraordinary. The reason for the one star was simple, it seems a vote does not do much to change a rating and some of the skins that just get a ten rating regardless, I felt should be less and in an effort to drive down to a fair(in my opinion) rating, I thought maybe the amount of the star rating difference might make more of an impact on the overall average rating if that is how it is done. I really do not know.

So, confession above and question here, does each star count on it's own, or is it the amount of stars, plus vote casters, to get that total, then averaged?

Last thing, I believe I was malicious, and will cease that from now on, I am sorry but believe it made no difference really, so what harm was done. Harm or not apologies still. But, an auto 10 star rating is unfair also, so we all deserve apologies from someone man. Okay, bye and happy times.

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July 18, 2014 12:17:15 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

So I guess I should save time and just rate everything from the preview.  If I like the preview give is a good rating and if I don't give it a bad rating.  Hum.  Guess I've been doing it all wrong.

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July 18, 2014 12:22:47 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

All the comments about the rating system are fine, but let me reiterate that this is thread is about people abusing the system as it currently stands.

What should and shouldn't be allowed is a completely separate topic to what I started.

 

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