Apple... Rotten to the Core

cheats on Australian taxes

By on March 5, 2014 7:43:01 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums External Link

starkers

Join Date 05/2004
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Take a look here - http://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/9bn-apple-profit-moved-offshore-214020163.html - to see just how rotten Apple really is... hides billions to avoid taxes...

 BASTARDS

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March 5, 2014 8:57:23 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Not any different than what any other large corporation based in any country does.  Pretty much business as usual for them, for us, it's 'Oh I see Mr. Smith that you failed to report your total income for the last tax year.'   

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March 5, 2014 9:23:42 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Nothing immoral or wrong with legal tax-avoidance.  It's just different in scale compared to what you and I do every day without thinking twice about it.  No more 'bastards' than you or I... maybe less so in my case.

No one is 'entitled' to their profits except their shareholders/investors.  Certainly not any government.

If the law permits them to do what they've done, they have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to maximize returns by doing so.  I'd be pissed as a shareholder if they didn't take advantage of legal tax-avoidance to the maximum extent allowed.  Laws broken - different story.  But it admittedly gets a bit murky with multinationals & various countries competing for various slices of a company's pie.

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March 5, 2014 9:41:59 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I'm sure Gina Rinehart had a chat with Palmer and made sure a fellow 'mining mate' would vote to repeal the Carbon Tax......God forbid she's taxed on her PERSONAL income currently rated at....$1,077,054.00 ..... every 30 minutes....

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March 5, 2014 9:57:12 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'd offer to temp for her for a few minutes, and collect her salary during that time, but I'm not sure it'd be worth it for having to deal with her...

 

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March 5, 2014 10:40:02 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Jafo,
$1,077,054.00 ..... every 30 minutes

Damn good work, if you can get it.

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March 6, 2014 5:26:30 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Daiwa,
Nothing immoral or wrong with legal tax-avoidance.

Well, there's nothing illegal about it.

As for 'immoral or wrong'? That might be argued, depending on one's moral values...

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March 6, 2014 5:35:53 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I agree with Doc. There's a big difference between the two. Unfortunately morality, like everything else, takes a distant second when it comes to money.

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March 6, 2014 10:10:45 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

I agree 'it might be argued' and we are all entitled to our opinion in that regard.  All Chick-fil-A's are closed on Sunday.  But one can't force one's 'morality' on someone else except through laws.

 

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March 6, 2014 11:35:13 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Daiwa,
But one can't force one's 'morality' on someone else except through laws.

Forcing one group's norms on another implies violence whereas respect, moderation and tolerance are the hallmarks of America.

Our government is expressly forbidden from espousing or favoring one religion and its values (morals) over another, or over a lack of religion (not to imply a lack of morality). There are areas of 'Morality' in which various religions differ. When legislating, these areas should be avoided or should regard the behavior involved independently of religion.

So, 'Norms' might be a better term/concept to use. Thus, the 'Blue Laws' regarding mandatory business closure on Sunday were modified to include other closure days.

 

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March 6, 2014 12:52:43 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Apple's taxes go up = Apple's costs go up = Apple's prices go up = the consumer pays for it.  The consumer always pays (assuming the company stays in business).

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March 6, 2014 1:16:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting DaveRI,

Apple's taxes go up = Apple's costs go up = Apple's prices go up = the consumer pays for it.  The consumer always pays (assuming the company stays in business).

Apple doesn't pay taxes = budget deficit grows = consumer pays anyway

Or why don't we all stop paying taxes. That way prices will be very low and there won't be any government. No police, no military, no public schools, no healthcare, no legal system*. Yeah, Apple really doing us a favor by not paying taxes.

*(okay, some of those things may still exist as private corporations)

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March 6, 2014 1:23:57 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,
Apple doesn't pay taxes = budget deficit grows = consumer pays anyway

Yep

 

Quoting DaveRI,
The consumer always pays

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March 6, 2014 1:43:23 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,
Or why don't we all stop paying taxes.

I'm open to that.

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March 6, 2014 3:50:49 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Apple for the last 15 years or so has been rotten to the core, nothing new here. Trash company making trash products with unspeakable labor practices in foreign countries, all for the sake of huge profits!

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March 6, 2014 4:06:35 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,
Or why don't we all stop paying taxes. That way prices will be very low and there won't be any government. No police, no military, no public schools, no healthcare, no legal system*. Yeah, Apple really doing us a favor by not paying taxes.

Or have a simple tax system where companies won't be overtaxed so they don't have to move money around. 

 

Quoting LightStar,
Trash company making trash products with unspeakable labor practices in foreign countries, all for the sake of huge profits!

That's not limited to Apple.  

 

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March 6, 2014 5:31:24 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

 

That's because we humans are the virus.........we need to let the machines take over! 

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March 6, 2014 6:07:47 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,
Forcing one group's norms on another implies violence

The Miller test (product of a Supreme Court decision) is used to determine "obscene" material in the US...the first condition is:

"Whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards (not national standards, as some prior tests required), would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest"

This is just one example, but I think it is fair to say that much of our law is exactly forcing one group's norms on another...

Why is rape, murder, and theft illegal?  When you get down to it, it is simply the law expressing the morality of the majority -- most people find those things wrong and thus support legislation that condemns such acts...the moral standards of a people are intensely reflected in their legal system, and thus obeying the law is submitting to the "moral norms"...

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March 6, 2014 6:18:39 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Seleuceia: Those acts of violence you enumerated violate the norms of EVERY sane person. Therefore, no one is being forced at all. Therefore there is no violence.

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March 6, 2014 6:20:12 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,
the moral standards of a people are intensely reflected in their legal system, and thus obeying the law is submitting to the "moral norms"...

My point exactly.  Fortunately, our society contains few who consider murder, rape and theft morally acceptable (except for the latter, in the form of taxes, natch) so most are not being 'forced to submit' to anything in obeying laws against them.

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March 6, 2014 7:03:52 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting LightStar,
Trash company making trash products

Tom. I've had an iphone and ipad for years and also a Macbook Pro Retina for awhile. They are all top notch products that put many of the competition to utter shame. Tell me, what hands on, significant experience do you have with Apple that gives validity to that statement?

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March 6, 2014 7:06:51 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

It's no accident Apple is the most profitable company on the planet...

Easy to do...

Step 1.  Don't pay taxes....

Step 2.  Exploit cheap workforce....

Step 3. Install catch nets for suicides....cheaper than cleaning blood of concrete...

Step 4. ....

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March 6, 2014 7:59:33 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting LightStar,

Apple for the last 15 years or so has been rotten to the core, nothing new here. Trash company making trash products with unspeakable labor practices in foreign countries, all for the sake of huge profits!

While I agree on the rest, which is not hard to do, given its blotted record with regard to 'profit above ALL else' and effectively sweeping employee suicides under the carpet, Apple does make good products and is a tech leader when it comes to quality and innovation.  However, it doesn't matter how good the products are if owning them leaves a sour taste in your mouth because the company's practices are distasteful... at best.

I have an interest in Apple's new Mac Pro, which is wholly designed and built in the US, but as for the iPad, iPhone and other Apple stuff made in China while exploiting 'near' slave labour... won't touch it with a very elongated pole.  However, while my distaste for Apple's employee 'abuse' rates high up there, my other reason for boycotting those products is that Apple, at no time, considered passing the savings it made from exploiting 'slave labour' on to its customers.  Now I'm not suggesting that anyone should benefit from ill-gotten gain and the 'abuse' of workers, no, far from it. 

No, my point is more that Apple's greed sees no bounds to how its profit is derived: from essentially ignoring worker suicides and their obvious causes [extremely poor working conditions] so as not to have to pay to fix it; to robbing its customers blind with over-inflated prices.  Yes, companies need to make a profit in order to survive, but Apple, being the most profitable company on the planet, has gone to great extremes to turn a fast AND slow buck regardless of how it comes... from exploitation, over-inflated prices and tax evasion.

Oh, and before anyone says other companies do it - and I see someone already has - it don't make it right.  More to the point, Apple does it on such a grand scale - hiding its Australian; US; European and UK earnings in offshore tax havens - that it is more than just criminal. 

No, this is theft of Biblical proportions and requires divine intervention, a wrath from upon high, which hopefully is delivered when Bill Gates comes out of retirement, retakes the reins at Microsoft, and plucks Apple from its tree.

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March 6, 2014 8:13:14 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting DaveRI,
Apple's taxes go up = Apple's costs go up = Apple's prices go up = the consumer pays for it.  The consumer always pays (assuming the company stays in business).


Apple can't raise it's prices infinitely.  They are constrained by the market place.  But not to worry there will always be people who stand in line for several days in inclement weather for the latest model of iPhone.

Sigh.  

 

We are living in a period of time reminiscent of the robber barons.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist)

In social criticism and economic literature, Robber barons became a derogatory term applied to wealthy and powerful 19th-century American businessmen that appeared in North American periodical literature as early as the August 1870 issue of The Atlantic Monthly[1] magazine. By the late 1800s, the term was typically applied to businessmen who used what were considered to be exploitative practices to amass their wealth.[2] These practices included exerting control over national resources, accruing high levels of government influence, paying extremely low wages, squashing competition by acquiring competitors in order to create monopolies and eventually raise prices, and schemes to sell stock at inflated prices[2] to unsuspecting investors in a manner which would eventually destroy the company for which the stock was issued and impoverish investors.[2] The term combines the sense of criminal ("robber") and illegitimate aristocracy (a baron is an illegitimate role in a republic).[3]

We hear now on all sides the term "Robber Barons" applied to some of the great capitalists. ... The old robber barons of the Middle Ages who plundered sword in hand and lance in rest were more honest than this new aristocracy of swindling millionaires.[1]
Lida F. Baldwin, quoting the August 1870 issue of The Atlantic Monthly, writing in 1907 about how little business had changed in 35 years.


It's okay to win, but the way we win matters.


backs out of the room slowly...  


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March 6, 2014 8:24:55 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Phoon,


Quoting LightStar, reply 14Trash company making trash products

Tom. I've had an iphone and ipad for years and also a Macbook Pro Retina for awhile. They are all top notch products that put many of the competition to utter shame. Tell me, what hands on, significant experience do you have with Apple that gives validity to that statement?

 

Actually Phoon, I started with Apple products back with the Apple IIe (yeah, I'm 63). I have had iPhone's that are overpriced with no storage expansion capabilities (what a waste). I had an iPad for all of 3 days and I took it back as I didn't like it overall.

Basically though any company that abuses their workers is trash to me, and that makes Apple's products trash also. I have no use for any company that takes jobs out of this country and puts them overseas just to save a few bucks, and I try to avoid their products when I can. They are assisting in ruining our economy here in the US, and that's very sad. 

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March 6, 2014 8:31:29 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I appreciate your views Tom and while I agree on several aspects of them we will just have to agree to disagree on the "trash" aspect.

 

 

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