Know anything about dogs?

By on December 18, 2013 3:11:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Matopicus

Join Date 05/2009
+5

Anybody know anything about dogs? 

About 6 months ago i found this lab/pit mix, beautiful dog at the local animal shelter. He was on the chopping block for the end of the month and was a year and a half old. So we grabbed him so he wouldn't be axed. 

The previous owner apparently knew a few things about dogs, the dog sits, speaks, lays down and stays about 10 feet from the front door when you enter until the door is closed. 

Turns out he totally LOVES water like no other dog i've seen, i mean you turn on the hose and this dog just get so excited bouncing around like a rabbit that i think he heart might pop. It's his love for water that brought on the first problem... we have sprinklers in the backyard, 16 of them. It didn't take him long to dig them all up and destroy them trying to play with the water.

So yelled at the dog and drug him to the sprinkler by his collar and smacked him once on the hind end. We repeated this three times (and several hundred dollars later). Than he learned and never messed with the sprinklers again. Cool life was good.

Than i come home from work one day and find that the dog chewed up our couch. So i did the whole yell, drag (by collar) to couch spank and drag him outside. This has happened now about 6 times. he wont leave my couch alone. 

But last night i went to grab his collar and he snapped at me, i pulled my hand back and then went for the collar again and he snapped and growled at me. Turns out my kids have told me that they dog has done that to them also when they went for the collar.

So now i'm thinking i need to take the dog back to the animal shelter, but is there anyway i can 'fix' this? I know it's most likely the way i disciplined the dog, but i also know that if i take this dog back to the animal shelter and tell them he snapped at me then they are going to just put him down due to legal issues they could find themselves in. 

So i'm stuck here, i am apparently a noob with dogs since i think i've made the dog think he needs to defend himself against me and my kids. So if i can fix this that would be awesome, but if not than i need to get rid of him before he flat out attacks one of my kids.

Any ideas?

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December 18, 2013 3:21:04 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

You could try a carrier so he doesn't have access to the furniture when no ones around and rawhide chews

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December 18, 2013 3:23:31 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

It's a 'pit' ....get rid of it now..... particularly as you have managed to 'mis-train' it.

They 'should' be a prohibited species and be wiped off the face of the earth.

Yes, there will be fans rushing to their defence but the statistics remain - they kill/maim many people every year....world wide.

Re your 'training' you have simply equated grabbing the collar as 'impending punishment'.

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December 18, 2013 3:33:05 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

As a child I almost lost my right arm to a pit, thank God it was on a chain. 

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December 18, 2013 3:33:29 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

I wouldn't go as far as Jafo, but pit bulls and kids are a bad mix.  Kids > dogs, so the dog would have to go.  There's too much evidence that pits can turn on kids.

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not against pit bulls.  We have two, but we also don't have any kids in the house.  When we have company over, we put the dogs in the back yard and lock the doggie door.  

If the dog has snapped and growled at you and your children, it really has to go as soon as possible. 

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December 18, 2013 3:35:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

But yeah i know that this is something that i brought on and understand my error now. I'm looking to correct it if possible. If not than i have no choice and i'll need to take the dog down to the animal shelter were he'll most likely be put down.

 

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December 18, 2013 3:57:19 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Matopicus, I have had dogs since I was a kid. My Father shot our black lab, after she bit my brother. ( found out 30 years later, he had a habit of teasing her with her food dish).

Anyway, whenever a family dog, or any dog goes after the kids, it is time the dog can no longer be trusted, no matter what kind of dog it is.

If and when you'd get another dog, spend time training the dog. The "dragging it to where it did something wrong and smacking it) does not work in the long run, and may cause the dog to not trust you.  


And about my brother, even teasing the dog with food, she really should not have bit him. ( I would have done it myself). 

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December 18, 2013 4:22:06 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yeah i understand it's time to let the dog go, i just feel bad since the idea was to save the dog and due to lack of knowledge we inadvertently signed his death certificate ourselves.

we have another dog, we had him since he was a poppy (just a few months old), he's a lab/chow mix. we "trained" him the same way and we've never had any problems with him. But this is a completely different dog, we didn't get him when he was a puppy like we did with the lab/chow. So it's a whole different world here.

 I don't want to wait for him to attack somebody, i mean that would be horrible. I just didn't know if there was something i could do to reverse this behavior or not. From the feedback i've gotten it appears there really isn't a trustworthy and reliable way of doing what i wanted to do.

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December 18, 2013 4:50:59 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Matopicus,
Yeah i understand it's time to let the dog go, i just feel bad since the idea was to save the dog

Think of the Children first, so therefore the dog must go. You saved that dog. I'm sure there are many children friendly dogs available to save. Go get one. Remember your intentions were to save a dog. So you can still do that just not the first one you decided on. 

After 40 years with dogs the best thing I found to train was this. When you dog does something gently carry it to where it was bad. Have the dog look at you even if you have to lift it's head with your hand. Shake your finger with the dog watching and just say no a few times each time you have to do this. The dog will learn. Now I have always started from puppies but would think it should work with an older dog. The dog has nothing to fear from you with this method so will learn from it. Some things may take a bit longer than others so patience. I have had dogs for 45 years and still have one. Love them. Remember when they do good things they love to here good girl or boy.

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December 18, 2013 5:05:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting DaveBax,


Quoting Matopicus, reply 7Yeah i understand it's time to let the dog go, i just feel bad since the idea was to save the dog

Think of the Children first, so therefore the dog must go. You saved that dog. I'm sure there are many children friendly dogs available to save. Go get one. Remember your intentions were to save a dog. So you can still do that just not the first one you decided on. 

After 40 years with dogs the best thing I found to train was this. When you dog does something gently carry it to where it was bad. Have the dog look at you even if you have to lift it's head with your hand. Shake your finger with the dog watching and just say no a few times each time you have to do this. The dog will learn. Now I have always started from puppies but would think it should work with an older dog. The dog has nothing to fear from you with this method so will learn from it. Some things may take a bit longer than others so patience. I have had dogs for 45 years and still have one. Love them. Remember when they do good things they love to here good girl or boy.

Makes sense, but i can't carry a 55 lb dog that doesn't want to be carried. i tried pushing the dog first and was a little difficult pushing a dog that doesn't want to be pushed. So i grabbed the collar as really a last resort to try and get the dog to come to where i wanted him. Grabbing the collar was the only way of getting the dog to move. But now as mentioned it's become a problem with the dog.

I'll take the dog down to the shelter i mean it's apparent that we've passed the point of no return on this. 

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December 18, 2013 5:08:19 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

When i was a kid 30/35 years ago, if i got bitten by a dog it was me who learn the lesson, not the dog! But these days no one has to be responsible for their own actions, always there is something else (or a dog) to blame.

And when people are horribly attacked by a dog, i still don't blame the dog, i blame the owner .... and whenever i see a dog running on the loose (not feral) i think to myself "somewhere there is a dog owner who is a dickhead".

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December 18, 2013 5:40:53 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Don't get a speeding ticket, but take that dog back NOW.  Unless the Dog Whisperer is near you, then take it to him.  Short of complete re-training of the owner and dog, there is no chance, and maybe not even then.

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December 18, 2013 5:47:26 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Mystikmind,
"somewhere there is a dog owner who is a dickhead".

Yep...but add to that a 'pitbull' was bred for one purpose only....and its only semi-worthwhile function is so that a Tradie doesn't always have to lock up the tools in his Ute....

You probably have found the reason the dog was in the pound in the first place...

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December 18, 2013 6:33:23 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Matopicus,
but i can't carry a 55 lb dog that doesn't want to be carried

I do understand that totally. as I said I always started with a puppy and the first thing I did was house train and teach the dog to come. After that I was able to do what I mentioned above and it always worked for many dogs I have had.. 

I wish you the best and am glad that no real damage has been done to you or the children and the rest of the family as far as injury. 

 

Quick comment on Pitbull's. I don't know where you all live but here in N. J. and Penn. all they do is talk about how wonderful they are and what great dogs they are. Thing is these are on TV all the time but you don't ever hear how wonderful other dogs are. As far as I'm concerned Pitbull's aren't misunderstand as they want to keep saying. They are just down right not trustworthy. A year ago my dog and myself was attacked in front of my own house from my neighbors Pitbull 4 houses away. It got out the front door when one of the kids came out and charged down to my house. By the time i saw it I couldn't get in the house. The dog attacked my dog and bit it a few times and knocked me down on the concrete where I got cut up and ripped my coat apart. My dog was running away as I got up and managed to get in my front door. Police took care of the rest. As per the owner who I knew the dog was a wonderful family dog and he couldn't understand it. I was very happy when his own Daughter told him and the police what really happened as it was what I said. While walking my dog I also had another pitbull charge at me but the owner managed to get it before any damage took place. So sorry I have no love or trust for bitbulls and never will.

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December 18, 2013 6:39:07 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

If your really serious about wanting the dog go here http://www.cesarsway.com/ and learn all you can...dogs can be fixed if you know how and are willing to take the time learning how. If your not serious just ignore this...take the dog back and never consider getting a dog again.

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December 18, 2013 6:41:44 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Jafo,


Quoting Mystikmind, reply 10"somewhere there is a dog owner who is a dickhead".

Yep...but add to that a 'pitbull' was bred for one purpose only....and its only semi-worthwhile function is so that a Tradie doesn't always have to lock up the tools in his Ute....

You probably have found the reason the dog was in the pound in the first place...

 

Protecting 'tools'??

I think a pitbull makes an excellent 'protection' animal without the need for having a very large dog. Just by reputation, most criminals will think twice before attacking an owner or invading a home with one of these on guard!

However, the more fearsome the protector - the more chance it will backfire!,,, i probably would steer clear of this breed,,, I can imagine i might get one if i had been attacked by criminals an my emotional state was to overeat to that, then yes, i would buy a pitbull

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December 18, 2013 7:27:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Whatever happened to "blame the deed, not the breed"? Just last year two children were killed by labrador retrievers.... any dog can be a hazard to little kids. I would never leave any dog alone and unsupervised with children, not even my loveable lab and German shepherd. I have seen a lot of properly raised and bred pitbulls as well, and they are also very loving and trust worthy animals, still does not change the fact that I would never leave them unsupervised with any child.

The point I am trying to make is its the owners fault in nearly all cases not the dogs. Its on the owner to properly research and commit themselves to whatever dog breed they chose to take care of, and take whatever precaughtions are nessesary to mininmize any potential danger.

 

As for the situation at hand, I am sad to say, you need to return the dog back to the shelter, and learn from your biggest mistake, taking a dog on, as an impluse buy/rescue. NEVER do that unless you know exactly what your doing.(especially with rescues, as they often come with learned naughty behaviors that may not be within the reach of an average owner to deal with)

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December 18, 2013 7:53:58 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Polistes,
Whatever happened to "blame the deed, not the breed"? Just last year two children were killed by labrador retrievers

Labradors are also known for being 'less than ideal' as family dogs...they too can be a little flakey.  Trained as Guide Dogs they're excellent, but both temperament selection AND good training makes them that way.

Fighting dogs are bred for agression, not 'cuteness and cuddliness' ...and with pitbulls that's quite evident.  They are as ugly as their temperament.

I managed once to get in between a neighbour's and another whose fullsize poodle was about to lose an ear....with a garden hose on HARD.  Managed to save the poodle's ear...

Then there was the story of the policeman who had a pit attached to his arm....and emptied his revolver into its head only to then go to hospital to have its jaws surgically removed from his arm.

That's not a 'pet'.

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December 18, 2013 7:58:21 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Polistes,
Its on the owner to properly research and commit themselves to whatever dog breed they chose to take care of,

LOL, yes.... one of our Wincustomize members [from the US] announced a few years ago she had a new dog ...an Australian sheep dog.  I said 'a Kelpie?'

She said yes....to which I replied "hope you have some good walking/running shoes - they're a working dog - and known to be eagerly 'on the go' 18 hours a day.... even in an Aussie summer"...

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December 18, 2013 8:16:34 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Matopicus...

Say bye to the dog. Incidentally, Labs love water, as do retrievers.

Bring it back to the pound and learn how to train dogs if you intend to have another. You did it...less than ideally.

Labs and Shepherds (females, especially) are great with kids. Get them young, though...and only AFTER you learn how to train them.

 

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December 18, 2013 8:26:26 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I've raised a retriever, he's always been great with kids he just doesn't understand that 120 lb dogs are not lap dogs.

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December 18, 2013 8:45:20 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Jafo,


Quoting Polistes, reply 16Its on the owner to properly research and commit themselves to whatever dog breed they chose to take care of,

LOL, yes.... one of our Wincustomize members [from the US] announced a few years ago she had a new dog ...an Australian sheep dog.  I said 'a Kelpie?'

She said yes....to which I replied "hope you have some good walking/running shoes - they're a working dog - and known to be eagerly 'on the go' 18 hours a day.... even in an Aussie summer"...

 

Yeas ago we had a farm in North western Victoria on the Murray river. One of my Dad's friends was selling a litter of Kelpie pups, my dad got one, it was a lovely animal, but after a few weeks it ran off and ate some fox poison and died. My dad went back and got the last pup which no one wanted because of its timid temperament. The people who rejected that pup were not wrong to do so! it remained timid and useless its whole life.

I guess the point is, the temperament of the pup counts allot!

 

Incidentally, Kelpies have Dingo in their genes, that is why they are so resilient.

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December 18, 2013 9:33:05 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

The dog isn't the problem... it's you...

 

unless you catch the dog and discipline them while they are doing the act of say... chewing the couch.... they don't understand what they are being 'attacked' for... even 30 seconds later is too late.... you just promote confusion and aggression in the dog... you are the aggressor...

Maybe your dog is bored... needs some chew toys... needs some more walks... needs some socialising and obedience training..

WebGizmos idea is excellent... watch Cesar... he is magic with dogs... retrain yourself..contact him if you value your dog..

the love of hoses and sprinklers is common with dogs... my Shepherds always loved them... it's a game..

I have watched shows of American pounds where the dogs are strictly assessed for aggression before they are allowed to go to families and have to pass many tests that might show aggression... including taking a food bowl away from the dog mid eating.. etc..  I gather this dog was assessed before you were allowed to rehome it... so, you need to look at what you are doing wrong...

Young kids should never be left unsupervised with dogs, especially larger dogs... kids have a habit of doing some nasty stuff to dogs, even if they don't realise it being too young, and the dog's patience can run out or it can be merely defending itself....  then.. it's the 'savage dog' attack story... unjustly...

That being said... a pitbull or part pitbull wouldn't be my first choice of dogs with kids... there are too many frequent stories of attacks with these dogs that can do a massive amount of damage.... I would say that in all or most of those cases... the owners are at fault for the treatment of the dogs and not having them properly socialised, restrained or housed... a mistreated pit bull isn't something I'd wish to confront and I don't think these dogs that are bred for pig hunting etc belong in domestic situations....  that being said, I know of quite a few family pit bulls that are just the most gorgeous, friendly, lovable sooks of dogs... and great with children.... like all breeds, you have to have knowledge of the parentage and temperament and know how to be, yourself, the Alpha male of the pack and dominate and train your dog correctly...

Being a long time member of the German Shepherd Dog Club... it was a general agreement... that there was no such thing as a bad dog.. just bad owners... proven many times over with people who would come to us with problem dogs.. it was always the owner...  

 

You need to ask yourself what the dog was like with you and the kids, before you started your misguided disciplining... was there any sign of aggression then?

As a 'noob' with dogs... you have a lot to learn... and each dog is different... start watching Cesar's show as your bible... and perhaps join a local obedience school for some socialising to keep your dog stimulated and for you both to learn...   If you have a dog locked up all day while you are at work and it's a young, energetic dog, it is going to find ways to amuse itself and take out it's boredom and frustration... hence, the couch...

If your dog is male, it can be a bit more of a challenge than an easier going bitch... if he is not desexed... you might want to discuss that with your vet... though coming from a pound... I'd like to think that was already done..

 

 

Quoting WebGizmos,
If your not serious just ignore this...take the dog back and never consider getting a dog again.

Agree with Web.... if you're going to keep 'practicing' on the dogs 'til you (hopefully/maybe) get it right... don't bother getting another, leave them there to have the chance of an owner who will commit to learning how to treat them, and have a chance at a full life and a loving home...

 

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December 18, 2013 10:12:12 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

While I'm not into dogs I've grew up with them. I decided I would never have one when my parents dog, a German Sheppard, ate cat food then licked all up in my ear. F*#$ing gross. Anways...

Yeah beating on the dog when it does bad will not help. Also, if the dog growls at you then you might need a different approach. If it's threatening family then it might have to go...but don't rush to this judgement. 

If it was in a bad home then you need to show him/her that it can trust you. Whooping it does not help. Pitbulls are not that bad. You might have to encourage it to take it's destructive tendancies out on something else. Every animal, or person, for that matter will have personality flaws. You will have to train it. Reward it for good behaviors but be careful about disciplining it physically for bad. Actually try and avoid doing that. If it's snapping, your doing it wrong. 

Honestly, you will need to learn how to train the dog as much as the dog will learn how to behave. Just keep at it. 

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December 18, 2013 10:13:40 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Generally speaking, if your dog is eating your couch, it's a sign of either anxiety (along with loneliness and boredom) or a lack of physical exercise and mental stimulation.  A lot of new dog owners underestimate how much exercise most young medium to large size dogs need in order to not feel pent up at home all day alone. In the absence of that you need to consider crating or at least sectioning them off to a small area or room as a short term solution. Really though, they just need to run around a lot, get some mental stimulation, and socialize with other dogs as often as possible and then most of the time they'll be pretty docile and mellow at home.

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December 18, 2013 10:36:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Also, if it's a puppy then it will be a bit before they calm down. Try and play with them when they are riled up and get them something to chew on. My dad used to give one of my parents dog tree trunks. The dog had a strong neck it was crazy. Bigger dogs like pitbulls do better in bigger areas. If you have a good enough fence and decent weather consider letting them be outside when you are gone and when you get home let them back in right away. Don't forget a dog outside. 

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