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Yes, there are monsters in the world

By on April 21, 2013 5:41:00 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Draginol

Join Date 03/2001
+102

Recently I was involved in a discussion regarding the two Boston Marathon bombers.  It started off with someone expressing concern about the amount of anger and hatred being directed towards the bombers.

I am dismayed and afraid about the amount of hate and vengeance for the two who planted the bombs. It is spreading the attitude of vengeance in our country. I saw a quote from Ghandi this morning which I have not verified, but it struck me as true. "An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind". What is the difference between those two and us wanting to kill them?

This comment launched a discussion that had one side advocating that we should try to understand – show “empathy” towards how people could become so “disenfranchised” that they would commit such violent acts?  They also argued that it was unhealthy for us, as a society, to feel so much anger, hate and a desire for vengeance against the perpetrators.

I disagree.

We have the ability to indulge ourselves in this discussion precisely because we live in a civilization that instinctively and actively removes the monsters from society. We should be thankful that the instinctive emotion by our society is anger, disdain and hate towards these monsters and not empathy or compassion.

A civilization that frets too much on whether it's acceptable to dehumanize monsters has little expectation to survive in the long-run. It only took two monsters to shut down Boston. And I think we all know that there are many many edge cases out there that could become such monsters.  Our civilization could be severely disrupted by a handful of individuals like the Boston Marathon bombers.  We should show no tolerance whatsoever for individuals that act in this way.

Therefore, as a society that seeks to survive, we should absolutely show the maximum amount of disdain, disgust and contempt for human beings to engage in such behavior. We should absolutely make it clear that people who engage in this act are so loathed that we no longer even think of them as human but rather as animals, vermin, and monsters. We so reject their actions that we figuratively have kicked them out of our species.

I think it's intellectually facile to argue that it's somehow "wrong" to dehumanize human beings like this. At best, it's the result of not thinking through the consequences of what would happen if a significant plurality of our society showed an ounce of compassion or empathy towards these kinds of monsters. And at worst, it's simply indulging in feel-good sanctimonious back patting (i.e. "Look at me, I'm an intellectual because I imagine that intellectuals are above feeling 'negative' human emotions).

If we want to keep our society, we better hope that people continue to think of human beings that would seek to destroy them as monsters, vermin, animals and worse.  “What is evil?” someone asked. Pointlessly and indiscriminately murdering innocents who were there to support loved ones participating in an event that celebrated excellence. That’s evil.

Just my 2 cents.

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April 21, 2013 5:59:31 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I agree with you... This not a case of "Hate the sin but love the sinner."

It isn't anyone's place to forgive them the lives they've taken. The only ones who could do that are beyond asking.

As for the wounded, they may forgive someday, that's up to them: Not me, nor anyone else.

 

I do think it's important to find out how their minds and souls became twisted... if only to know who is at risk for doing such things in the future and perhaps to try to prevent it in the future. That's just common sense: "Know who your enemy is." And... if someone is coming to kill you, wake up earlier and kill him (Wisdom of the Fathers - Pirke Avot).

As for dehumanizing them? They did that to themselves with their thoughts and acts.

Evil? Not sure I can define it... but I know it when I see it, and their acts were evil.

 

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April 21, 2013 6:13:09 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

The big problem here is that we don't know if these people were in possession of their faculties. It seems as though they were, but that's a very major accusation to make. I will defer judgement until we get a full psychological evaluation.

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April 21, 2013 6:16:30 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

We should be thankful that the instinctive emotion by our society is anger, disdain and hate towards these monsters and not empathy or compassion.
Amen.

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April 21, 2013 6:25:36 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

 I agree with you, those that cause harm ARE monsters/vermin and NEED to be removed from life.

harpo

 

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April 21, 2013 6:30:19 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Psychological evaluation?  If your trying to kill me and I can kill you first, then I will.  I don't care if you have all your mind or not.  That has nothing to do with me not getting killed.  Sorry, a bag full of marbles or 1/2 a bag, makes no difference to me.

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April 21, 2013 6:44:36 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Scoutdog,

The big problem here is that we don't know if these people were in possession of their faculties. It seems as though they were, but that's a very major accusation to make. I will defer judgement until we get a full psychological evaluation.

I seriously doubt that two brothers would both go nuts at the same time Scoutdog, they are both flat out guilty, caught on video and their actions speak for themselves. I am personally saddened though by the fact that one of them died already, I was hoping someone would inflict the same pain and torture on them that they inflicted on so many others, and repeat it until such time as their minds do go absolutely nuts, then see to it that they were put to death, publicly on national television. At least the younger one is still alive ...

This was a terrorist act, treat him exactly as he would treat another who did not follow his beliefs.

If they did this in the name of their God, don't these terrorists realize that all they are doing is giving their God a bad name in the eyes of others? Do something kind and useful in the name of your God, that is the way you earn respect, not by killing and terrorizing.

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April 21, 2013 6:53:09 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Quoting WOM,
Psychological evaluation? If your trying to kill me and I can kill you first, then I will. I don't care if you have all your mind or not.
At the time, that would be the correct decision. But now we have this... individual in custody, and we need to determine how cognizant he is of his actions before we can proceed.

 

The best definition of "evil" I've been able to find is to know that something is wrong, and then of one's own free will do it anyway. That covers relatively few people. Some terrorists are either so disturbed as to be unable to distinguish the two, and many of the more ideological and organized kind truly believe they are in the right. That has nothing to do with how much of a threat they represent- that's a largely* separate question. But if we're delving into areas of morality, especially what the -now in custody- bomber "deserves," what they were thinking and/or attempting to accomplish is important.

This is of course an emotionally-charged issue. But if people act intuitively as opposed to objectively, we end up with flames, as opposed to anything resembling constructive discussion. That's why I've gone out of my way to keep my tone as neutral and unemotional as possible.

 

*It is, however, true that ideologues are usually much more organized and harder to detect than lone maniacs.

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April 21, 2013 7:05:00 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

We do need to understand the bombers, but whether you want to feel empathy towards them is another call. I think the voices calling for restraint and understanding are more concerned that any hate towards the bombers will be redirected against whatever part of their identity is determined (or popularly believed) to have lead to the attack, whether their origins, religion, age or whatever. That kind of hate does nothing to help us recover from the attack, and quite likely will only help to fan the flame for the extremists on both sides, making more attacks more likely.

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April 21, 2013 7:07:56 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,
We do need to understand the bombers, but whether you want to feel empathy towards them is another call.
Exactly. I'd like to add that "understanding" them comes in two different, but often difficult to disentangle, flavors: understanding what makes them tick so that we can better isolate and police future terrorists like them, and understanding what they were thinking so that we can level an appropriate punishment. It's this last that would determine our level of empathy/antipathy.

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April 21, 2013 8:31:38 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Scoutdog,

Quoting GoaFan77, reply we can level an appropriate punishment.

 

A needle in the arm is the appropriate punishment. That's an easier death than their victims had. If it were up to to me I would go old school and hang them. Let them strangle to death even that is to easy for them



.

 

 

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April 21, 2013 8:38:07 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I live in a small town in the country and we had some scumbags come into our hillside and murder two neighbors just three day ago.  Frewsburg Skinner Homicide,search ,you will find it. So, yes kill em all.DT1

 

These were people I knew, I hate these evil bastards.

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April 21, 2013 9:43:02 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

I don't care what they thought.  I care what they did.  The acts speak for themselves and evidence careful planning and conscious intent.  The acts define their insanity, but it was/is not of the temporary variety.  No shrinking needed.  And no mirrors.  Our society or culture did not plant the seeds of this in their minds, except to the extent that it simply exists.  I'm all for knowing as much as we can about how they were recruited or what influenced them to do what they did, but no amount of navel-gazing will stop such people - you'll just be looking down when they hit you and never see it coming.

Then again, Bill Ayers started his academic career this way.  Maybe we can patch Djokar up and get him a job teaching our kids, too.

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April 22, 2013 12:21:04 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

 

180413crouch

These guys were everywhere, and nobody bats an eye?

and personally, I believe in due process and not summary execution by cop or mob.

 

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April 22, 2013 12:25:57 AM from Little Tiny Frogs Forums Little Tiny Frogs Forums

and personally, I believe in due process and not summary execution by cop or mob.

Is anyone suggesting they not get a trial?

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April 22, 2013 12:31:28 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
Is anyone suggesting they not get a trial?

 

“It does seem to be pretty clear that this suspect took the backpack off, put it down, did not react when the first explosion went off and then moved away from the backpack in time for the second explosion,” Mr. Patrick said. “It’s pretty clear about his involvement and pretty chilling, frankly.”

Mr. Patrick said he hadn’t viewed the videotape but had been briefed by law enforcement officials about it.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/21/video-shows-bomb-suspect-dodging-blast-mass-gov-de/

 

More info from guys with no name.   
My source has a source who has been told... Ya right!


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April 22, 2013 12:43:29 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting TechNoWeb,
A needle in the arm is the appropriate punishment. That's an easier death than their victims had. If it were up to to me I would go old school and hang them. Let them strangle to death even that is to easy for them

Quoting myfist0,
and personally, I believe in due process and not summary execution by cop or mob.

Maybe, but neither rage, hateful comments on the internet nor their punishment is going to repair any of the damage they did. Simply because their crime has captured the headlines and emotions of the country does not mean they should be treated any differently. As myfist says, the remaining suspect is in custody, it is time for the criminal justice system to take care of it and for everyone else to rebuild and move on. That more than anything deny terrorism any victory.

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April 22, 2013 1:34:00 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting myfist0,

Reduced 61%Original 432 x 720

 
 180413crouch


These guys were everywhere, and nobody bats an eye?

and personally, I believe in due process and not summary execution by cop or mob.

 

Even I keep track of the conspiracy crowd.... 

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April 22, 2013 2:10:16 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting G_Bison,
Even I keep track of the conspiracy crowd.... 

I didn't get info from there and I would hazard a guess that info is wrong. I would say this info is a little more believable but maybe just as much guessing as anyone else is doing.

Images of the scene prior to the bombs going off show a team of individuals that are dressed in a uniform typical of Craft International employees.  Craft International is a private military contractor, similar to Blackwater.  Craft specializes in sniper, protection detail, covert ops and close-quarter-combat training.  They are a training organization, not a security organization.  That means they were not at this event  providing security. They must have been there conducting some kind of a drill or training exercise.  Craft does not offer security guard services.  Even if they did, they are way too elite for general security at a marathon.

I have a hard time believing that a private commando team would just randomly happen to be at the site of a terrorist bombing, in their uniforms no less. Further, one of the team members can be seen using an electronic device that appears to be a radiation detector.  I suppose he just randomly happened to have one of those on him as well. They also appear to have ear piece communication devices on them.
http://www.libertariannews.org/2013/04/18/private-military-contractors-belie-the-official-boston-marathon-story/ 


Isn't it typical that all these terrorist events have training operations going on. If I were to guess and put bullshit information out there like every corporate media source does, I would say these patsies were under FBI control and Craft was there in case the patsies were busted and they could say were part of the drill. Craft may not of even known this was going to happen, probably setup just like the brothers.
[/TINFOILHAT] 


 

The FBI Fosters, Funds and Equips American Terrorists




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April 22, 2013 2:26:58 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

OK...let's get some REAL perspective here...simply because it's....er...timely.

The other day a bomber who killed and maimed innocent people was shot dead...and another was shot and injured and 'will die'.

They are 'monsters' exactly as Brad said.

Today, a woman died.  The most 'evil' thing she ever even SAID in her 94 years was 'bugger' ....and 'bloody'.

SHE was a good person.  SHE deserves compassion.  These animals do not, not in any shape or form.  They can rightfully rot in hell.

Oh, BTW....

The woman was my mum.

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April 22, 2013 2:39:46 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

So sorry for your loss Jafo

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April 22, 2013 4:01:02 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

My condolences JAFO...

@ myfist0, Dang, you conspiracy site is worst then mine. That classic line from "The Matrix", "Let's see how far the Rabbit hole goes..."

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April 22, 2013 8:05:06 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

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April 22, 2013 8:20:16 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Condolences Paul, may she rest in peace.

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April 22, 2013 9:35:48 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,


and personally, I believe in due process and not summary execution by cop or mob.

Is anyone suggesting they not get a trial?

Lindsay Graham for one.  He pretty much says send them off to Gitmo

 

We have to maintain our standards, or we get blights like Gitmo, which is the biggest stain on America's honor since WWII, and with much weaker justification than what we did during WWII.  (I say this as a veteran and someone who for the most part supported the Iraq War)  You also get things like the maltreatment and torture of Bradley Manning.  (he's guilty, but he didn't deserve to be tortured)

 

Yes, we can hate the monsters, but we don't have to become the monsters.   Too many folks seem happy to become the monster.  

 

 

 

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April 22, 2013 9:43:00 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting myfist0,




More info from guys with no name.   
My source has a source who has been told... Ya right!





 

Are you auditioning to be some sort of new era "Truther"?

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