Data recorders in your car?

By on January 2, 2013 12:42:42 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002
+2155

 

Well, everyone knows about the two data recorders in airplanes. But cars? Really?

Ostensibly, it’s the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) which is recommending this for cars, and if they have their way, we might see them in cars by 2014.

This rulemaking proposal is called:

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration
49 CFR Part 571
[Docket No. NHTSA–2012–0177]
RIN 2127–AK86
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety
Standards; Event Data Recorders
AGENCY: National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration (NHTSA),
Department of Transportation.
ACTION: Notice of proposed rulemaking
(NPRM).

Their motives as outlined here:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-12-13/pdf/2012-30082.pdf

sound pure enough. All they want is a few seconds before, during and after the crash to aid in making cars more reliable.

So… sounds like a good idea, no? There won’t be a voice recorder. Yet. It wouldn’t be hard to add, though.

What would they record? Well, obviously speed, throttle voltage, brake lights, ignition, number of passengers, seat belt status, and what would all that be worth without location, right? After all, speed without location isn’t very helpful. It would be triggered to record (actually, to keep what it already is keeping in its buffer) by a sharp turn, braking, and hard bumps as well as any collision. What’s proposed is 30 seconds of data. At this point.

Well, if there’s an accident the insurance company is sure to get the data… and be able to find a reason (any reason) to deny your claim. Already they are offering lower rates for folks who voluntarily plug in a data recorder of sorts which transmits data to them. That’s the negative.

It could be so much more: It could save lives.

I’d rather see an effort to have data recorded which would really tell an operator what’s going on in his engine and with the other systems in his car. All that’s really needed is a large buffer (not necessarily in the car itself) and a diagnostic algorithm. The Cloud might be a good place (if location is rigorously encrypted) for such a buffer. It wouldn’t have to be going 24/7/365…it could record only in cases of significant problems, and then alert the operator immediately along with a report for the mechanic.

Legal aspects shouldn’t be ignored. It might also help in finding the guilty party/ies and help in assessing liability but I don’t believe that should be the primary function. It could save many lives if someone listens.

Source:

http://www.lockergnome.com/news/2013/01/02/is-big-brother-heading-to-your-car/

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-12-13/pdf/2012-30082.pdf

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January 2, 2013 1:19:35 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Since the government is promoting smaller and more fuel efficient autos they are finding that miraculously, tax revenue from gasoline sales are declining. ( well duhhhhhh ). It isn't too far off that we will be taxed by the distance we drive to compensate for this loss. ( don't for 1 second think that they will give up their fuel tax either ). I see this as just a stepping stone to get to that point while disguising it as something else.

No.. I don't want anything monitoring my vehicle or driving habbits. The government already has it's nose too far up my colon for comfort. 

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January 2, 2013 4:01:29 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

We're already paying per mile with all of the new toll roads going in.  Even existing roads are being tolled.  That's the part that bothers me, but what can we do?

As far as the data recorders, I have a dash cam that records GPS data, speed, G-forces and voice.  I have a rear window DVR that's being readied to go in as well.  I obviously don't have a problem with data recorders, but I can see how those who value their privacy much more than I do could have issues with the idea.

If I could get a discount on my insurance, I'd gladly add whatever they want, even one of those breath thingys to make sure you're not drunk before you drive.  Or if they'd pay me some other way, I'd be ok with it too.  

I can be bought. And I'm cheap.   

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January 2, 2013 4:11:09 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Data recorders of a sort have been a part of OBD sytems in cars for years now. TrafficCams are what you need to watch for. The number one activity they record at stoplights are people picking their noses.

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January 2, 2013 4:43:57 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

lol @ MottiKhan... excellent.

The current ones don't record the kind of stuff NHTSA wants... but the point is well taken, as is Phoon's.. I understand the privacy concerns and the "Where will this end?".

I also would love a tamper proof breatholizer to be in cars/trucks/trains/planes... that would certainly help cut down the highway slaughter. Of course, the more systems, the more problems and illicit 'industries' built around neutralizing any safety or 'inconvenient' system in a car.

There should be ways to prevent that stuff... but I'm sure there's someone more clever around to circumvent them...

Anything but honest work. 

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January 2, 2013 5:56:56 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

People are currently installing onboard cameras....extremely handy with fighting claims of culpability in disputed prangs.

I'm all for it.

Australia invented the black box [in the first place] and, incidentally...all those onboard cameras in motor racing....originated/pioneered at Bathurst by Channel 7.  [The first use of them onboard in F1 was at Adelaide....where Schumi lost his somewhere in the crowd [we think] ].

The only downside [if that] for car recorders is the comparative 'insignificance' of an incident compared with a Jumbo falling out of the sky.

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January 2, 2013 6:18:36 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

George Orwell was nobody's fool.

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January 2, 2013 6:52:32 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

GM has had data recorders in some cars for years. It's located in the console under the dash. Onstar does the same thing by locating the car by GPS. They can determine how fast your car was going at the time of the crash. Onstar can even tell you whats wrong with the car if your engine light comes on. Other companies are following along with this. I save $200 a year from my insurance company because both my vehicles have Onstar. As for my 09 car no data recorder.

 

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January 2, 2013 6:59:58 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Do we follow in the Orwellian footsteps and complacently give over what little is left of our independence? I say......boogers! Put that in your Twinkie and.....well...you know what to do with a Twinkie......right?

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January 2, 2013 7:15:10 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting ALMonty,
I save $200 a year from my insurance company because both my vehicles have Onstar.

Is yours free? From my search:

 

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January 2, 2013 7:19:57 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

It is government, they do not care what the public wants. Insurance companies alone could and probably will pay millions to get that law passed. All about money, not saving lives, or enforcing laws. Not to say it could not be, but that is just more revenue when you get a ticket in the mail that says you were driving to fast last thursday and owe a fine, and you are like, what ,,when did I get stopped, well you did not, the data recorder sent the info to the dmv. Sad part is , you could have been trying to quickly pass a slower car and only were speeding to get past quickly and safely before any oncoming traffic appeared, could have swerved to miss a animal and crossed the yellow line, etc. Data recorders would not see that. To much control and how much does that push up the cost of a car. Then, the hackers will start in and what good will come from them? NONE.Sorry , hate government control to that extent.DoorTech1

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January 2, 2013 7:41:38 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

No Doc it's not free. I have the Safe and Sound plan for both vehicles. That being said if a deer jumps out and I hit it and go off in a ditch I want rescue to find me as fast as possible.

Doortech the data recorder can only be accessed by plugging a laptop in it and retrieving the information from it.(as of now)

What you really have to look out for is EZpass. When you go through a toll it records the time. When you hit the next toll that records the time and calculates the mph you were traveling. If you were way above the speed limit it sends out a warning and they can send you a ticket for speeding on that road.

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January 2, 2013 7:46:03 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

EDRs have been out for years...ever since the Gen2 airbags were released. With the company I work for, I've attended quite a few data pulling sessions. Most are attended by an investigator, an attorney or two, and an engineer. 

Don't kid yourself, the tech has been in service for years. The release of this information is just to desensitize the public to it, more than likely because of the billions of dollars involved in the Toyota lawsuits.

AlMonty, If I remember correctly your 2009 is a Pontiac is a GrandPrix or G8, both of which do have data recorder capibilities in the SDM, BCM, and ABS modules.

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January 2, 2013 8:09:55 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

It's a Pontiac G8 GT and yes it has SDM, BCM, and ABS modules. I just checked my service manual and it didn't show a data recorder in the wiring harness. I know they put it in the console for protection and I've had that opened up and there was nothing in there. But I could be wrong, they could have hidden it some where else.

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January 2, 2013 8:36:53 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

They measure lateral Gforce with a yaw sensor on the G8...the only reason would be for EDRs.

I believe you can display Gforce data through your instrument cluster.

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January 2, 2013 10:14:12 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

No Gforce display. That would be cool though. 

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January 2, 2013 10:37:35 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting ALMonty,
No Gforce display. That would be cool though. 
Just put a hot cup of coffee on your dashboard, it will give you plenty of cornering feedback.

BTW, Happy New Year to you, ALMonty.

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January 2, 2013 11:05:59 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting ALMonty,
What you really have to look out for is EZpass. When you go through a toll it records the time. When you hit the next toll that records the time and calculates the mph you were traveling. If you were way above the speed limit it sends out a warning and they can send you a ticket for speeding on that road.

We have speed cameras in Australia already doing that....

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January 3, 2013 7:20:07 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Happy New Year to you Wiz!!

Jafo we have intersection cameras here. If you don't come to a complete stop turning right on a red light they take a picture. When they send you a ticket there is a link to show you what you did. $85 offense.

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January 3, 2013 7:32:29 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

AlMonty... was only saying, "You can't win." ... you save on the insurance, but the plan costs more than you save. Typical... if I didn't know better, I'd say it was rigged that way.

 

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January 3, 2013 8:32:20 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Of course it's rigged. Companies wouldn't be making money if they didn't.

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January 3, 2013 8:36:34 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting ALMonty,
Jafo we have intersection cameras here. If you don't come to a complete stop turning right on a red light they take a picture. When they send you a ticket there is a link to show you what you did. $85 offense.

No...I was refering to speed vs distance cameras....you are logged at one point...and checked a few miles later at a second camera...and the time taken determines average speed...and you cop a fine if you get to the second one too soon....essentially what you mentioned...hence the quote...

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January 3, 2013 10:49:22 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

We also have police officers with radar guns that could catch you speeding. 

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