Windows Defender is MSE, and MS changed it for Security Companies and OEM’s.

By on August 22, 2012 9:26:46 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002
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First of all, in W8, “Windows Defender” is MSE (Microsoft Security Essentials) and it will give antiviral and anti-malware protection (the two are now combined under one roof). W8 will come with it and the Windows firewall.

That’s a good thing, right?

Well, consider the fact that OEM’s (Dell, HP, etc.) and Security software companies make money from installing “trialware/bloatware” on new computers. The OEM’s make it from the various companies whose trialware is installed, and those companies from the folks who decide to buy that software down the line.

So, we have a conflict of interest here… The Security software companies are unhappy about Windows Defender (and why is it really needed in this supposedly super secure OS, anyway?) and the OEM’s are unhappy because they’ll be missing a chunk of bucks from those companies.

MS to the rescue. Not necessarily your rescue, though.

When the “trialware” use period is over, W8 will start a 15 day countdown. You will get periodic warnings from the Action Center to update the definitions for this (unnecessary) software, or to install a Security program!

At the end of the 15 days, the warning will expand to include:

  • The user can renew their existing antivirus software
  • Uninstall their existing software and activate Windows Defender or
  • Select another security software from Microsoft Store
  • Click on the Remind me later button – which now starts another 7 day countdown.

       - The Windows Club

Windows 8 will activate only activate if it detects no other active security program.

It won’t tell you any other program isn’t really necessary, also it won’t tell you that if you already have another program installed you can continue to use it.

Windows 8 will not tell you that for the 15 day period during which you have the options to buy, unistall, or remind again in 7 days YOU ARE NOT PROTECTED.

In fact, if you do choose to “remind in 7 days”, you will be unprotected for 22 days!

So, please remember:

  • If you buy a computer with W8 installed and you have pre-existing Security software you wish to continue to use, install it promptly and uninstall any “trialware” or,
  • At the end of the trial period of the Security software either buy that software or uninstall it and activate Windows Defender and the Windows firewall.
  • Windows Defender will not automatically activate unless the “trialware” is uninstalled. The same might also be true when any subscribed to Security software’s subscription ends.

Also, please remember: You are not MS’s primary concern. Big business and trouble free profits are.

Source:

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/microsoft-behavior-windows-defender-windows-8-oems-security-companies

 

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August 22, 2012 10:27:51 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Select another security software from Microsoft Store

Is this an attempt to grab profits from 3rd party security software companies?  Are said companies going to be "pushed" into selling their products through the MS store?

I've used Defender since 2007 on Vista 32/64 and on Win7 since release, just because it's there. To the best of my recollection, it has never blocked, stopped, removed or otherwise had any effect on any malware my rigs had been exposed to. It wouldn't even spit out a false positive once in awhile to make me think it was working.

I've used AVG, Avast, and now ASC Pro with AV (great , btw) all of which detected and stopped most things I did not want on my computer with little or no false positives. 

What got through always needed 3rd party Malware removal tools to get rid of. Defender is a toothless, mute watchdog imho and I have little confidence in it or now MSE's ability to do it's job.

No thanks, MS.

 

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August 22, 2012 10:50:42 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Undoubtedly buying through any retailer will engender added cost... passed on to the consumer.

That said, MSE has blocked a nasty or two for me (in the past).

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August 22, 2012 11:13:09 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

MSE along with Threatfire hasn't missed a bug yet. All the more reason to 86 Win8. The more Microstuff tries to improve it the more they f**k it up. I'm beginning to think MS really doesn't give a shit for the very people who use their software. Any other company would go belly up in a heart beat.

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August 22, 2012 4:55:05 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Well this dilemma doesn't apply to me.  My rig is a home build and I have no trialware crap to consider.  In fact, that's one of the primary reasons I refuse to buy OEM machines.... all the damned bloat and crapware, plus the fact that I'm not locked into a closed system in which I unable to upgrade my hardware as needed.

When the time comes to purchase/install the finished product I'll make a decision then, though MSE seems to be shaping up as a viable alternative to Avast and other free AV programs.  In fact, a full version Kaspersky Internet Security came with my motherboard, unused so far, so it is another option when the time comes to safeguarding Win 8.... which I will update to now that I've discovered the means and ways to use it like a regular Windows desktop.  On this hardware and my SSD's in RAID 0 array, it should positively fly above the capabilities of Win 7.

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August 22, 2012 5:11:37 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting starkers,
Well this dilemma doesn't apply to me.

Ah, but it does... if you have other subscription Security software on your system. When your sub is up, W8 might go into the 15 day routine. If not, Windows Defender might or might not activate: I don't know. If I were you I'd check into this... 

 

 

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August 22, 2012 5:41:08 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Starkers, you say you found a way to force Win8 to behave like a traditional desktop, is it through 3rd party tools?

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August 22, 2012 8:26:55 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,
Ah, but it does... if you have other subscription Security software on your system. When your sub is up, W8 might go into the 15 day routine. If not, Windows Defender might or might not activate: I don't know. If I were you I'd check into this...

From what I understood this situation applied to OEM machines offering trial software which may or may not conflict with Windows Defender and/or Win 8.  I may have misunderstood, but I don't think it will matter to me too much as I'll probably stick with the beefed up Win Defender anyway.

Quoting DaxxTrias,
Starkers, you say you found a way to force Win8 to behave like a traditional desktop, is it through 3rd party tools?

Yes, I use Classic Shell [free] to bypass the Metro UI and replace the start button and menu, thus giving it a Win 7 feel and appearance, but I also use Winstep Xtreme [from $29.95] which provides a fully customisable start menu, a workshelf to place all your shortcuts, folders and programs, etc in segments to suit your needs, and a dock named Nexus that can hold your most frequently used items but hides off screen until require.

Stardock also does Start8, which restores the start button and start menu that Microsoft saw fit to remove because we "don't need it anymore"

All of these apps assist in making Win 8 more user friendly, it's just up to you what best suits your needs.  There are probably others available but these are the 3 I am familiar with and find useful.

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August 23, 2012 7:04:41 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Micosoft has a very poor history record when it comes to security software of any kind. You probably better of any other security software free or paid for than with a program from Microsoft.

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August 23, 2012 8:51:06 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

thing is... most isp or even banks give out freebie security suites nowadays... mcafee, kas, etc

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August 23, 2012 2:29:44 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I never have like MSE. No option to turn off auto updates, scanning is slow, and the program itself slowed down my computer. Looks like I'll stick to Windows 7. 

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August 27, 2012 2:23:08 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

If I ever buy an OEM computer (big if) there's no question that I'll use the Reset feature as soon as I get it to wipe all their shit off it.

Also, saying 'big business' is their only concern would mean they never added that feature in the first place.

I could mention antitrust here, since Europe is still on their ass for including other things in their OS...

But I really don't care, so that's all I'll add on the topic.

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August 27, 2012 3:20:53 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I have used MSE and windows firewall on my machine for ages and have NEVER been hit by any nasties. I also do manual scans with malwarebytes and spybot 2 or 3 times a week. No security software is infallible and straight out common sense is the best way to avoid being hammered by viruses and malware. The way i see it, If Microsoft want to include MSE as standard in THEIR operating system then why not?. You are free to not purchase it after all. And it looks like they will include options to not activate MSE and choose to find your own solution. So whats the problem? People are too precious and self inflated and expect everything to be done how they want it. Well life aint like that and you always have a choice.

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August 27, 2012 5:12:02 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I have no problems with MS providing security software for their OS, I actually think they should.

If there is an option to use 3rd party software if you choose to, I see this as a non issue. Don't care who provides it, as long as it works.

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August 27, 2012 2:47:00 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Nimbin,
I also do manual scans with malwarebytes and spybot 2 or 3 times a week.

That's overkill. Once a month should suffice. 

The issue I have with MSE is the auto-updates. No way to turn it off. Nothing more annoying than a program updating itself and using resources you need for other apps.

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August 27, 2012 3:40:33 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting kona0197,
That's overkill. Once a month should suffice. 

 

Ummm... i will decide whats overkill and what's not thankyou. You stick to how you do it and i will stick to how i do it. This is the reason why in 25 years of computer use i have never been hit by anything major. Like i said. Common sense is the way. Once a month in my opinion is irresponsible and i would never let you within 50 feet of any of my computers if that is the way you do things. So there

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August 27, 2012 4:53:02 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I've never been hit with anything either. Reason why? I visit the same sites everyday and hardly wander from those sites. Personally, in my opinion, I think scanning multiple times a week is too much. It uses resources that could be better used elsewhaere, and the constant scanning can cause premature wear and tear on the hard drive. 

Oh and I take care of other computers, and they scan once a month, and have no issues. Pretty sure other people around here scan once a month as well.

So there... 

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August 27, 2012 7:51:20 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting kona0197,
I've never been hit with anything either. Reason why? I visit the same sites everyday and hardly wander from those sites. Personally, in my opinion, I think scanning multiple times a week is too much. It uses resources that could be better used elsewhaere, and the constant scanning can cause premature wear and tear on the hard drive. 

 

Lol, well i commend you for only ever visiting the "same" sites everyday and hardly wandering from them. That puts you in a vast minority of internet users. Even though that is no guarantee that those sites cannot become infected and transfer that infection to your system, but i digress. Your argument about "using resource that could be better used elsewhere" is flawed. Since when is security a bad use of resources. I call it common sense and protecting yourself from harm. And if one uses that same common sense they are also backing up their data so if a hard drive does go belly up then you have back ups. So maybe your hard drive will last a few hours longer than mine.... big woop. I prefer safety and piece of mind over the fact that it costs 0.11c per Gb to replace a HDD and transfer your sensibly backed up data to it. So keep scanning once a month if you like, that's your choice. I say it's irresponsible, you don't..that's ok. Your entitled to that view. I on the other hand will keep scanning twice a week and backing up my data in case of HDD failure knowing that i am doing the right thing.

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August 27, 2012 9:31:59 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

What makes you think what you are doing is the right thing? Honestly I think your a bit paranoid. As I said before I am sure there are plenty of users on this board that perform scans only once a month and backup their data once a month. Your argument about hard drives being cheap is flawed. What about those who can't afford even a cheap new hard drive? As for my argument about resources I only have 512 MB of RAM on this machine and can't afford to upgrade so scanning in the background is something I would rather not do when I am running Windows.

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August 27, 2012 10:46:03 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

No one's paranoid.

No one's right. No one's wrong.

Nimbin does 'a'. kona does 'b'.

And it all matters zilch..... because the Mayans will have the last word.

 

 

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August 27, 2012 11:28:51 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Between now and late December I'm doing nightly backups and scanning weekly.  After that, Doc, I'm with you.

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August 28, 2012 12:22:36 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting kona0197,
Pretty sure other people around here scan once a month as well.

That may be so....

I scan every day - it's constant anyway...checking what comes and goes.

I backup every day...with redundancies to a third drive ...and full system image every week.

 

HDs going cheap isn't flawed at all.  It's true.  The only issue is when 'cheap' may be interpreted other than 'relative'.

 

What's often the case is those who DON'T scan regularly simply DON'T KNOW they ARE infected/hit with something....

 

"What's that smell?"

"It's my crocodile repellent."

"There AREN'T any crocodiles here in Melbourne."

"See?  It works!"

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August 28, 2012 1:18:13 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Hard drives being cheap does not matter when you are broke. 

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August 28, 2012 12:57:40 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting kona0197,
As for my argument about resources I only have 512 MB of RAM on this machine and can't afford to upgrade so scanning in the background is something I would rather not do when I am running Windows.

Okay, then, what about scanning just before or when you go to bed... when you're not doing anything important?  Many scanners these days have a shutdown PC when done feature, so why not use that just before going to bed, thus saving your resources for things you want/need to do. 

As for only having 512mb of RAM, you'd be in a small minority these days with such limited resources, so it's a bit unfair/closed minded to expect others with much more powerful systems to behave as you do on a less powerful machine.  I am with Nimbin on this one, because I have more than ample resources to run video editing programs and several other items while scanning, so to err on the side of caution I scan at least every other day... sometimes more often if I visited sites I'm not too familiar with.

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August 28, 2012 3:05:07 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

No need to scan at all Starkers - I mostly use Linux on this machine. Plus i shut the machine down every night before going to bed.

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August 28, 2012 3:19:15 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting kona0197,
No need to scan at all Starkers - I mostly use Linux on this machine. Plus i shut the machine down every night before going to bed.

So all that back and forth with Nimbin was....?????

Why ask why?

 

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