FBI proposing laws?

By on May 5, 2012 2:35:34 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002
+2167

 

Well, that’s a novel lobbyist. One a legislator might have some second thoughts about refusing.

That’s one reason (among several) I find this newest news item very disturbing. Apparently, the shift from prior use of traditional telephony to the Internet has made it more difficult for FBI agents to wiretap Americans suspected of illicit actions. Therefore, in meetings with the White House, Senators, and industry representatives senior FBI officials are arguing for Microsoft, Facebook, Yahoo and Google to build in backdoors for Government surveillance.

To do this, The FBI’s General Counsel (Andrew Weissman, special counsel to the Director of the FBI in 2005, federal prosecutor of the East District of New York for 15 years, director of the Enron Task Force, and in private practice represented both US and foreign Corporations and executives in criminal and civil investigations and has taught criminal law and procedure at two law schools) has drafted a proposed law (supposedly the best solution),

“requiring that social-networking Web sites and providers of VoIP, instant messaging, and Web e-mail alter their code to ensure their products are wiretap-friendly.” – Declan McCullagh, http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57428067-83/fbi-we-need-wiretap-ready-web-sites-now/?tag=mncol;morePosts

This legislation would alter the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) which was extended in 2004 to include broadband networks.

Mr. Weissman’s predecessor, Valerie Caproni singled out "Web-based e-mail, social-networking sites, and peer-to-peer communications" as problems that have left the FBI "increasingly unable" to conduct the same kind of wiretapping it could in the past (http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20032518-281.html).

The FCC is thought to be considering the reinterpretation of CALEA to demand the backdoors for Skype, Google Hangouts, XBOX Live and I’ll wager all the IM’s as well. So, Apple’s Facetime, iChat/AIM, Live Messenger and Gmail’s videochat will be affected as well.

There are larger forces at work: Election year politics. The White House is probably concerned about another privacy battle which could, and damned well should be a wedge issue.

A point of transient interest… the Senator who introduced CALEA in the 1990’s was none other than now V.P. Joseph Biden. His legislation then stated that companies should "ensure that communications systems permit the government to obtain the plain text contents of voice, data, and other communications when appropriately authorized by law."

Supposedly, they will still need a court order to establish the tap. How many times has that requirement been violated in the past?

The EFF is concerned about this type of legislation and so is Phil Zimmerman (inventor of Zfone which scrambled communications and author of PGP decoding software). So, Linphone, Kphone and Zfone will be required to comply yet most likely be unable to comply. Guess what will happen to those companies.

TechAmerica ( represents HP, eBay, IBM, Qualcomm and other tech companies) has been lobbying against CALEA expansion. These changes will cost significant amounts of monies. Guess who’s going to pay the price? Also, besides the companies, guess who will profit from all the lobbying.

Which brings me to the real point here. It seems the Congress can’t function unless it’s in a matter which limits our freedoms more and more.

It seems we have perfected the system for expanding technology and laws to treat the fear of the technology we’re “improving to make life better.” The legislators don’t mind, since they profit no matter what.

Which brings me back to the title.

Doesn’t anyone mind that the FBI (a law enforcement agency) can propose legislation?

Well, why should they… after all, corporate lobbyists have been doing that for years. That it’s basically a police agency shouldn’t bother anyone, right? They’re just looking out for us. Just as they always have. They have our best interests at heart, and we should trust them.

However, if you find out someone there or in government anywhere is doing something wrong, don’t try calling a newspaper.

“Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?” ?  A dead question, like the language used to phrase it.

Could someone remind me just why we need a legislative branch? Don’t quote the Wikipedia, nor the Constitution. The former is not trustworthy, and the latter stopped being relevant in this country decades ago.

Sources:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57428067-83/fbi-we-need-wiretap-ready-web-sites-now/?tag=mncol;morePosts

and those in the article text.

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May 5, 2012 2:52:14 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm not nearly as shocked by this as the fact that they went door to door asking people not to oppose such a solution. That's WTF.

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May 5, 2012 3:28:22 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Run children, run........................ but where too.......

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May 5, 2012 4:01:08 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I'm goin' to Mars....again.

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May 5, 2012 4:22:17 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I hate these threads, Seth, because they make me feel so utterly powerless.  Our world is turning into a police state, and there isn't anything a normal person can do to stop it. 

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May 5, 2012 4:26:38 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

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May 5, 2012 4:33:06 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting k10w3,
I hate these threads, Seth, because they make me feel so utterly powerless.  Our world is turning into a police state, and there isn't anything a normal person can do to stop it. 

 

join the Police force?

 

Anyway, I'm happy not to stress on any of this, or read it for that matter.

Ignorance is bliss.

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May 5, 2012 4:38:25 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Doesn't bother me in the least bit, if you're not doing anything illegal you have nothing to worry about. Would you rather criminals get away with everything?

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May 5, 2012 4:40:53 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Doesn’t anyone mind that the FBI (a law enforcement agency) can propose legislation?

Well, why should they… after all, corporate lobbyists have been doing that for years. That it’s basically a police agency shouldn’t bother anyone, right? They’re just looking out for us. Just as they always have. They have our best interests at heart, and we should trust them.

This isn't uncommon. Federal agencies aren't generally prohibited from lobbying.

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May 5, 2012 5:05:41 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting k10w3,
I hate these threads, Seth, because they make me feel so utterly powerless.  Our world is turning into a police state, and there isn't anything a normal person can do to stop it. 

Sorry to hear that Karen. Better to just trust them.

@ WebGizmos:

I wish I were that cute. 

Quoting vStyler,
Ignorance is bliss.

So true. 

Quoting LightStar,
Doesn't bother me in the least bit, if you're not doing anything illegal you have nothing to worry about.

If that were true, the framers of the Fourth Amendment wouldn't have bothered writing it, or the Fifth Amendment either. This time, Tom, you appear to believe that the FBI has the purest of motives. This is from 2004:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4638275/ns/dateline_nbc/t/secrets-j-edgar-hoover/#.T6WXb72jN8E

and it wasn't the first expose of J. Edgar and his own cross dressing lifestyle while living with his deputy director. So much for the vaunted J. Edgar Hoover. So it's ok if they have all the secrets, eh? What about theirs? They have the power so they have the secrets (and vice versa). 

No wonder they want crap like legislation allowing them to choke off the Internet.

No, my friend. This country started becoming less with the HUAC, McCarthy, and a government which caused its countrymen to fear.

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May 5, 2012 5:07:10 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting LightStar,
Doesn't bother me in the least bit, if you're not doing anything illegal you have nothing to worry about. Would you rather criminals get away with everything?

This. I know people love to throw around that Ben Franklin quote but this is basically just modernizing what the FBI has been doing forever to catch criminals. There's a fine (and fuzzy/murky) line between liberty/privacy and security but in my opinion this is not outrage worthy.

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May 5, 2012 5:13:15 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting LightStar,
if you're not doing anything illegal you have nothing to worry about

It's the pinnacle of hypocrisy to violate the fourth amendment to the constitution in order to nab a criminal.  What sort of example is the government setting when it's okay for them to violate their office in order to do their job?  This makes them no better than common mobsters! 

I give a damn about my country.  My son is maimed and will for the rest of his life endure pain because he served his country and because I'm his mother, I experience a psychological pain every day for that reason.  To think he fought for nothing, that the country he sacrificed for would turn on its own citizenry, violating the constitution and the bill of rights, makes me sick to my stomach.  

I would rather have an upstanding government that I could be proud of, and a few criminals running free, than all the criminals locked up and a government I can't trust because it craps on the constitution.

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May 5, 2012 5:38:02 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting k10w3,
I would rather have an upstanding government that I could be proud of, and a few criminals running free, than all the criminals locked up and a government I can't trust because it craps on the constitution.

I don't believe it has to be an "either/or".

I believe that if you watchdog them to death and have a free press, the fungi can't grow in the light... especially if the citizens care more for freedom than fear for their lives. That was the "great" in the "Great Generation"... and the Revolution.

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May 5, 2012 5:40:02 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting vStyler,
Ignorance is bliss

Ignorance is never bliss. Parents tell their kids that they should just ignore that bully, and they'll stop picking on you. The truth is that life doesn't work like that. What actually happens, is that the bully beats the snot out of you and continues to make your life miserable regardless of whether you acknowledge them or not, or, the bully stops bullying you... but goes and bullies someone else. The issue was never dealt with, and ignorance had no effect upon it. So it is with anything else that we choose to ignore.

Ignorance makes it so that we, on an individual level and as a species, fail to advance as much as we possibly can. And worse than that, ignorance makes it so that the progress we have made is slowly eroded away. Ignorance makes it so that others can continue to dictate to you and maintain their status quo.

Ignore things as much as you want, but the issue hasn't changed or gone away. Deal with the issue properly and maybe change happens.

There are many things I don't like about the reality of the world I have to live in, and I understand that some things may never change. But I do accept that reality for what it is, and I don't try to ignore it.

 

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May 5, 2012 5:42:18 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Starcandy,
Ignorance is never bliss

 

Hmmm.. speak for yourself

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May 5, 2012 6:00:35 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Starcandy... vStyler is anything but ignorant... he was being facetious.

All because he can't stretch or tile a *certain* texture... lol... j/k, Sir John.

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May 5, 2012 6:08:52 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,
vStyler is anything but ignorant... he was being facetious

Fairy Nuff!

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May 5, 2012 6:21:09 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I can stretch it or tile it.. but the end result is not up to my personal standards.

 

and what I mean is.. I could give two flips about the FBI passing laws, whether they can, whether they cannot.

Not gonna read about it, don't wanna know... and most certainly don't care.

WAY too much other , more pressing stuff to circle the wagons in my conscious and unconscious mind.

My middle name is ramus

Sounds pretty ignorant to me. 

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May 5, 2012 8:52:58 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I can't say I care either...but then I've never cared for an antiquated 'bill of rights' too...

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May 5, 2012 11:55:31 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I foresee Gestapo type of monitoring/enforcement in the future.. Everyone is a suspect and must Prove their innocence,Wire taps and "Text Taps will not be just common place but the the "standard" As everyone will be Monitored to ensure dissidents against the "state" will be Handled. Freedom of speech is becoming nothing more than illusion, it will be forced underground to be "only spoken Behind closed doors, in a closet." You will have the right to say what they want when they want..

 

Sure I may be thinking ahead of my time. But then Ive watched freedoms constantly slowly be removed for " the good of the People" Over the course of my life. It makes me wonder what my Father gave his life for, all those years ago..

 

Semper -Fi

 

HG

 

 

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May 6, 2012 9:24:01 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Jafo,
I can't say I care either...but then I've never cared for an antiquated 'bill of rights' too...

Now if only we could find a capable and charismatic leader to make our decisions for us...

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May 6, 2012 11:06:52 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting HG_Eliminator,
I foresee Gestapo type of monitoring/enforcement in the future.. Everyone is a suspect and must Prove their innocence,Wire taps and "Text Taps will not be just common place but the the "standard" As everyone will be Monitored to ensure dissidents against the "state" will be Handled. Freedom of speech is becoming nothing more than illusion, it will be forced underground to be "only spoken Behind closed doors, in a closet." You will have the right to say what they want when they want..

 

Sure I may be thinking ahead of my time. But then Ive watched freedoms constantly slowly be removed for " the good of the People" Over the course of my life. It makes me wonder what my Father gave his life for, all those years ago..

 

Semper -Fi

 

HG

 

 

Nope, HG. I absolutely agree. So when I see bad stuff I say so. We owe those who fought for these things and those to come. How will we be able to say, "I didn't even try."?

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May 6, 2012 11:19:02 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I personally find it pretty surprising that such thoughts would be considered "ahead of my time". You're basically living in a police state. To me, the only difference between an actual police state and the USA is that the population still thinks they have freedoms.

The police does not have your well-being in mind.

The politicians do not have your well-being in mind.

The companies do not have your well-being in mind.

In fact, the only people that probably have your well-being in mind are the soldiers sent off to die in other countries. Pause for a second and think about that.

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May 6, 2012 11:42:59 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,
In fact, the only people that probably have your well-being in mind are the soldiers sent off to die in other countries. Pause for a second and think about that.

Absolutely correct. Which makes exploitation of them and insufficient care for them when they return, unconscionable.

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May 6, 2012 12:39:31 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

This wouldn't bother me quite so much, if it weren't for the fact that what happens in America tends to be adopted by other countries around the world sooner or later.

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May 6, 2012 1:19:11 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I think we're a bad influence.

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